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Posted on 01/16/2013 8:57:49 AM PST by marshmallow
General audience, Benedict XVI defines the Incarnation as "something unimaginable, the face of God can be seen, the process that began with Abraham is fulfilled." The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, he asks "for the great gift" to "proclaim together that Jesus is the Savior of the world."
Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "The desire to know the face of God is in every man, even the atheists," but this desire is only realized by following Christ, in whom, in the Incarnation, "something unimaginable took place, the journey that began with Abraham is fulfilled. He is the Son, the fullness of all Revelation; the mediator who shows us the face of God. "
And "to proclaim together that Jesus is the Saviour of the world" Benedict XVI asked for incessant prayers for "the great gift" of Christian unity in the forthcoming week, which begins on the 18th of this month.
Previously, in his catechesis, he again reflected on the meaning of Christmas, in a commentary on John's Gospel in which the apostle Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. The answer of Jesus, "introduces us to the heart of the Church's Christological faith; For the Lord says: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn 14:9).This expression summarizes the novelty of the New Testament, the novelty that appeared in the cave of Bethlehem: God can be seen, he showed his face is visible in Jesus Christ".
The theme of "seeking the face of God" is present throughout the Old Testament, so much so that the Hebrew term "face", occurs no less than 400 times, 100 of which refer to God." The of Jewish religion which the religion forbids all images, "for God can not be depicted," and "can not be reduced to an object," tells us that "God...
(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...
First Century Christians were generally either crucified or fed to the lions. The ritual of burning people at the stake was not popularized until about 1500 years later when it was used by Christians to execute heretics and witches. Interestingly many heretics were willing to be burned at the stake rather than submit to sound doctrine.
Now we just excuse it as “You have your belief and I have mine.”
That will probably be interpreted here as a strong argument for the authority of a Magisterium. :-)
Of course God saw that some would resist, be lost, and end up in hell.
That’s an inescapable conclusion.
Harley, as a Calvinist in the tradition of Arminius, I agree that there is a hell. As I understand it, God instituted hell as a place of punishment for the wicked.
The bible says, iirc, “where the worm doesn’t die.” I take that to mean God does not want them loose in His creation.
“They will not harm nor destroy in all My holy mountain.”
It’s putting the prisoners on an ice floe in the Arctic, in a place and punishment from which they’ll never escape.
Wrong. A Fatalist believes that we are powerless to do anything. Our actions do not control our outcome. It is left to something else (e.g. chance, fate, etc).
We are saying everything IS influenced by our decisions. The way the world is going is simply because we make the wrong choices (look at the last election for proof). The problem is we can't make the right choices. But this is the way it has been designed.
"Let Us make man in Our image". Is that an Historical fact or a mythological allegory?
Fact. But you forgot the fall of Adam. Then Adam made Seth after his (e.g. Adam's) image (Gen 5).
Question on why God created hell...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...
No, I'm not assuming that at all.
No doubt men would desire paradise, a perfect existence with no sickness, no crime, no need to work, etc, but they would NOT desire to be with God, any more than Adam did after he sinned.
Yeah, I believe that men were created with an independent streak that does make them willing to suffer hell for eternity rather than submit to God.
I think CB's point in post 191 kind of summarizes it....While I agree that no one can take credit in any way for believing or accepting God’s calling I do believe there are those who can take blame for not accepting God’s call or “resisting”.
The question isn't why would God make people just to send them to hell. The real question is why would God make people to be His adoptive sons and daughters?
I don't have a problem with that. God created man in His image for fellowship with Him. Why would God not want to save him?
God unequivocally hates sin. He loves man, made in His image but will not strive with man forever.
I fail to see the reason for your question on God’s reason for creating hell. I answered in #203 (or thereabouts), so you must not have seen it yet.
Marlowe rightly says that many Calvinists are fatalists; in your case, you correctly assert that we can’t make the right choices because of our sin nature. So, any good thing done is done only by the grace of God. As scripture says, by grace we are saved through faith (and that not of ourselves probably refers to the faith)
So, how do the resisters of the Holy Ghost resist if sinning is their natural state? Who are they resisting? And what was he doing with those sinners that they needed to resist it?
Everybody's doctrine on this board but mine (and a few others). :O)
Seriously,
o If they come face to face with scripture that completely contradicts their theology, they better be careful.
o If they have to reach for external sources to try to explain the scriptures they better be careful.
o If they have to rely on very convoluted arguments, they better be careful.
Nero used Christians as touches for his parties.
HD: Wrong. A Fatalist believes that we are powerless to do anything. Our actions do not control our outcome. It is left to something else (e.g. chance, fate, etc).
Of course they do. This whole thread is displaying post after post telling us that man has no choice, that he's predestined to whatever God decides to do to him, or with him.
Romans 9 keeps being referenced to support that. Now you're telling us man DOES have a choice?
Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.
Question on why God created hell...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...
answered.... answered.... answered....
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
I did not see CB's post above. Like probably everybody else I haven't had time to read every one, particularily when not directed to me.
However, in regards to CB's point, every person who does not accept God's call bears their blame. They are without excuse because even though they knew God they did not honor him as God. But every Christian who accepts God's call does so because God opened His eyes and ears to hear the truth.
Both hear but only believers hear and understand. It's no different than God sending plague after plague and still Pharoah could not understand.
I’ve no doubt this is what you believe. It is also what Wesley believed although he couldn’t explain why God created hell.
However, just google Arminian doctrine of hell and see what you get. It falls in the “mystery” category.
Nope, didn’t see it. I’m a slow reader and a slower typist. :O)
And, no, PM is not right about Calvinist being fatalist. Fatalist believe everything is by “fate”. Calvinist believe everything is caused by our sin nature. There is a distinction.
Touche
After all these beautiful posts of mind and is this what you still believe????? :O)
Show me exactly where I've stated man has no choice!!! I've plainly stated that man DOES HAVE A CHOICE. He just chooses evil all the time. That's our choice. I've even used the analogy of a 2 year old that will tell their parents, "No". So how can you possibly say that I am saying man has no choice? Please bookmark this post.
Man indeed does have a choice. Our choice is for evil. But people just don't like to hear that. We like to think we make a decision for Christ.
Yeah I see something wrong. There are 152 pages in that thing. Are you kidding me? All that in response to “what must I do to be saved”? Seriously? Do they think Paul and Silas were kidding when they were asked? Why are they adding to what the scripture says is needed for salvation?
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
There you have it. The simple answer to “what must I do to be saved”. How dare these earthly organizations formulate some type of convoluted value added “confessions” to what was told the jailor and many others who were told by Jesus and the apostles the simple message of salvation? Shame on them. No where in scripture is it stated that anyone had to somehow “confess” 152 pages worth of “confessions”. Again, shame on them and those who promote that unscriptural demand.
>>Yet many Protestants today want to deviate from the Protestant confession.<<
Well call be deviating then. I’ll take the words of Paul and Silas and when someone asks me “what must I do to be saved” I will, like Paul and Silas simply say “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved – and your house”.
The Catholics, Calvinists, Lutherans, et al can have their “value added confessions” if they want but I’m going with the originals.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Everything?
That would mean that our sin nature trumps the will of God.
Maybe you mean just the bad stuff?
Is it our sin nature that determines our destiny or the sovereign will of God?
I doubt anyone here disagrees with that. But that’s a long way from stating that no one who is called cannot resist.
Wait no more. It’s rather plainly stated in scripture.
Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
So are you now saying that man can resist the calling of God?
God's Name is I AM.
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