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To: CynicalBear
"Well, perhaps you could help by showing where I would be wrong in saying that the RCC is in contradiction to scripture. For instance, you could once and for all show us where in scripture the teaching of the assumption of Mary is taught. That would certainly be a start wouldn’t it?"

CynicalBear, please show me the text in the Bible that contradicts that Catholic teaching.

I believe you do not mean that it "contradicts" the Bible, but only that you cannot find a text in the Bible that explicitly confirms that event.

You don't believe that EVERYTHING that ever happened in Biblical times was put into the Bible somewhwere, do you?

For example, do you believe that Jesus Christ had a 16th birthday? Do you believe Jesus and His Mother Mary ate some kind of food on that day of his 16th birthday? Can you prove that from the Bible? (Show me the actual text of that.)

The Bible NEVER claims to contain "everything about everything" that happened in the Holyland during Biblical times. (If you disagree, show me the text where it DOES claim that.)    To believe that is in itself an extra-Biblical belief -- you are believing something that is NOT contained in the Bible.    In fact, if you believe that Mary simply died and was buried and remains there in her tomb or grave like most other people, show me the specific text in the Bible where it explicitly tells you that.    If you can't (and you certainly can't), then you too are believing something that is not explicitly stated ANYWHERE in the Bible. You are NOT a "Bible-only" believer.

Do you believe Peter died, and Paul died, and John died?

If so, please show me the texts in the Bible where those three deaths are recorded.

If there are no such texts in the Bible discussing when, where, and how they actually died, but you still believe that they died, that is NOT a contradiction of the Bible -- it just means that many true things that really happened are NOT recorded in the Bible, and it is very likely those three men DID die, though the Bible is totally silent about all that.

A contradiction to the Assumption would be a Bible text that explicitly stated that the Assumption did NOT happen.    If you can find no such Bible text, than there is absolutely NO contradiction in the Bible to that teaching, anymore than saying that the statement "CynicalBear is trying to live as a Christian according to CynicalBear's best understanding" is a contradiction to the Bible because that information about "CynicalBear" is not explicitly contained anywhere in the Bible. That is not logical, and does not represent a true contradiction whatsoever, just something that is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, like so many other things that, nevertheless, really, truly happened.

Do you believe that the "Ark of the Covenant" which God instructed Moses to have built to God's specifications, was important, and that God promised Moses that He would communicate with Moses from the Cherubim Gold statues on the top of the "Ark of the Covenant", as claimed in these texts?

Exodus 25:10-22

10 “They shall make an ark of acacia wood; two cubits and a half shall be its length, a cubit and a half its breadth, and a cubit and a half its height.

11 And you shall overlay it with pure gold, within and without shall you overlay it, and you shall make upon it a molding of gold round about.

12 And you shall cast four rings of gold for it and put them on its four feet, two rings on the one side of it, and two rings on the other side of it.

13 You shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold.

14 And you shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, to carry the ark by them.

15 The poles shall remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it.

16 And you shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you.

17 Then you shall make a mercy seat[a] of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth.

18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat.

19 Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends.

20 The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.

21 And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you.

22 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.

Do you also believe that the "Ark of the Covenant" was important enough to appear in God's temple in heaven, as seen in a vision and related here in the Bible?
Revelation 11:19

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, loud noises, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Do you believe God commanded all humans to honor their mother, and that everyone should obey that commandment?

Do you believe God can and does do miracles at times?

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born from only one womb -- Mary's?

Do you believe that God's special presence (Jesus Christ) inside of Mary was just as important as God's special presence talking to Moses from those gold cherub statues on the top of the "Ark of the Covenant"?

Please consider all these things prayerfully.

1,191 posted on 01/11/2013 5:08:49 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: Heart-Rest
>> I believe you do not mean that it "contradicts" the Bible<<

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Mary was “under the law” so was a sinful person as “all” have sinned.

Galatians 4:4-5, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

>> You don't believe that EVERYTHING that ever happened in Biblical times was put into the Bible somewhwere, do you?<<

I believe that we are told all we need to know. Making stuff up or adding to Christ’s words were rather looked down on.

>> A contradiction to the Assumption would be a Bible text that explicitly stated that the Assumption did NOT happen.<<

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Now you’re trying to say that there was one other before the “first resurrection”.

>> Please consider all these things prayerfully. <<

No disrespect but what makes you think I haven’t? The nonsense of “if scripture doesn’t say it didn’t happen then we can say it did” is exactly what the Mormons, Muslims and other cults claim. The special revelation will have dire consequences.

1,193 posted on 01/11/2013 5:38:10 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Heart-Rest
A contradiction to the Assumption would be a Bible text that explicitly stated that the Assumption did NOT happen. If you can find no such Bible text, than there is absolutely NO contradiction in the Bible to that teaching

You may excel in Catholic philosophy but you are failing in bible 101...

I will use this verse as an example which we were recently discussing...

1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Now you guys have a bunch of Cardinals...They wear different color clothes from each other to signify what office or how much authority they have over each other...And the official robes of course signify they that are not just run of the mill Catholics...

These guys are transported around in limousines, they sit in the most prominent places at public conventions, they are bowed down to...

The bible does not say you can not have a Cardinal...But the verse posted eliminates any consideration of the office of Cardinal...

The same with the assumption of Mary...Like you say, the bible does not say Mary was or wasn't assumed into heaven...But we know from the rest of the scripture that she wasn't...

I suggest YOU consider all these things prayerfully, with an open bible in front of you...

1,241 posted on 01/12/2013 6:58:57 AM PST by Iscool
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