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To: JCBreckenridge
Ok. You have Jesus, and the Gospel writer for the things that they witnessed. Everything that’s in the Gospel qualifies.

Qualifies as what? one still cannot use the Gospels, or the words of Yeshua to change the Torah. Nothing changes the Torah.

But you are. You are saying that ‘unless it meets my arbitrary criteria’, we don’t have to follow it.

I said no such thing, and my criteria is not arbitrary, as I have already proven.

What I have said is that if the interpretation thereof destroys the Torah, then the interpretation is needfully wrong.

And that includes the Gospels. You are attempting to alter the Gospels by ignoring one verse that you don’t like. This is wrong.

I have ignored nothing.

And that includes the Gospels. You are attempting to alter the Gospels by ignoring one verse that you don’t like. This is wrong.

The passage is sure - it is the interpretation and extrapolation that is false.

How so? I am arguing that when Jesus gave St. Peter the power to bind and loose that St. Peter was given this authority by God himself, at God’s own time and place, and at his own choosing. I am affirming this principle that the Gospels are inviolate - you are denying this is the case.

They can only be inviolate on the sure foundation of the law - To use such a passage to assert authority over the Torah is obviously malformed. And that is exactly what has happened.

Jesus himself said this was the case, and taught this in the Gospels. Ergo, I have met the burden you have asked. You have simply dismissed the citation.

Unless you can demonstrate how that fits within Yeshua's clear command to do and teach the Torah, you have met no such burden. For if Yeshua actually sanctioned such as you desire, he can only be a false prophet. Ergo, your interpretation and extrapolations there from must be incorrect.

I have then challenged the origin of the rule, and I have now shown why everything in the Gospels qualifies.

You have shown nothing. There is no cause with which one can change the Torah. YHWH said so, and so did Yeshua.

234 posted on 12/30/2012 3:13:36 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

“Qualifies as what? one still cannot use the Gospels, or the words of Yeshua to change the Torah. Nothing changes the Torah.”

Then you aren’t a Christian. :)

“my criteria is not arbitrary”

Yes, your criteria is arbitrary, unless you choose to toss out the entire Gospels. Which is consistant, but it also makes you not a Christian.

“What I have said is that if the interpretation thereof destroys the Torah”

You would have to prove that it does destroy the Torah. Which Jesus’s statement most definitely does not do.

“I have ignored nothing”

You are ignoring the passage that states that Jesus gave Paul the power to bind and loose.

“The passage is sure - it is the interpretation and extrapolation that is false.”

What interpolation? That Jesus told Peter that he gave Peter the power to bind and loose? That whatever he bound on earth would be bound in Heaven? That he gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven?

That is all in the actual verse. No interpolation necessary.

“To use such a passage to assert authority over the Torah is obviously malformed. And that is exactly what has happened.”

It is up to you to show that Jesus violated the torah by doing this. It is your thesis. You must demonstrate why. Just saying so is insufficient.

“Unless you can demonstrate how that fits within Yeshua’s clear command to do and teach the Torah”

We see the priestly authority from Melchizedek handed down to Aaron, to Moses, to Elijah. Each time, God gave them blessings and a command and an order to protect his people Israel.

Peter received the same commission, as did Paul - the Great Commission, to preach the Gospel to all nations.

“You have shown nothing”

You say that two witnesses are sufficient. I have shown that all the Gospels bear the testimony of at least two witnesses.

You have conceded this point. Now you are arguing that “Yeshua has no power to change the Torah” and that in commissioning the 12, and giving Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven is contrary to what the Torah states. Now you must prove your contention by showing exactly how this is so.


235 posted on 12/30/2012 5:25:38 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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