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To: boatbums
Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

You're reading more into this than is there. God always loves us. True.

But this doesn't mean that we always love Him. We can separate ourselves from the love of God when we choose not to love Him --when we sin.

Jesus said those who believed in Him were not condemned (John 3:18).

"In the same way, faith by itself, if it does not prove itself with actions, is dead." (James 2:17) Faith is more than intellectual.

The College of Cardinals, who decide who will lead ALL Christians (according to the Catholic Church) are NOT God.

The Church doesn't teach that they are.

The CofC is said to have a divine responsibility to choose the successor to Peter to lead the entire church. Neither Peter nor God would have had anything to do with those Popes who were abominations to the faith.

Jesus and Peter would have nothing to do with sinners? Aren't we all sinners? Didn't Peter deny Jesus three times? Didn't all of the Apostles abandon Jesus? Weren't they "abominations to the faith?" Yet Jesus forgave them.

And don't forget the many saintly popes, and the fact that the first 31 popes were martyred.

4,807 posted on 01/07/2013 9:16:38 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
You're reading more into this than is there. God always loves us. True. But this doesn't mean that we always love Him. We can separate ourselves from the love of God when we choose not to love Him --when we sin.

Once we are born again and become children of the Most High, we cannot be cast out or lost. God does not cease to love us if/when we sin because he knows our frame, he knows our weaknesses. God doesn't require us to be sinless in order to be saved - if that were the case, NONE would be saved. God saves us through his grace and he GIVES us eternal life THROUGH faith, NOT by our works - or our non-works, either. We don't become lost when we sin if we are God's because our salvation was never based on our OWN righteousness, but on Christ's righteousness. Our actions cannot make us cease to BE God's children - that is what grace is all about.

"In the same way, faith by itself, if it does not prove itself with actions, is dead." (James 2:17) Faith is more than intellectual.

A genuine faith WILL exhibit a changed life because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and he is working within us to conform us to the image of Christ. A TRUE faith will not BE a dead faith, but works do not merit salvation - only faith in Christ does. What do you think a "dead" faith is? Real faith WILL not be dead, useless, unfruitful, but it is a living faith that cannot help but be active because it is a new nature in Christ.

Jesus and Peter would have nothing to do with sinners? Aren't we all sinners? Didn't Peter deny Jesus three times? Didn't all of the Apostles abandon Jesus? Weren't they "abominations to the faith?" Yet Jesus forgave them. And don't forget the many saintly popes, and the fact that the first 31 popes were martyred.

The Holy Spirit would be working in their lives as He would any other lost person - drawing them to recognize their sin, understanding their need for righteousness and the judgment that will come. You seem to be missing the point here. When you speak about a man who is the Pope, you aren't supposed to be talking about some bum off the street, at enmity with God and an enemy to Christians, are you? Isn't the whole idea that this guy is divinely appointed to succeed St. Peter as the head over all Christians? So, how can he be someone who is guilty of gross immorality or murder or simony or any one of the "mortal" sins Catholics say excludes someone from heaven? Of course, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but some of these guys were guilty of things most normal people would be appalled at and would NEVER think of committing. Can someone guilty of gross sin be saved? Yes, of course, where sin abounded the grace of God superabounded, but there WOULD be a changed life, there would be repentance. A genuine Christian would not continue doing the kinds of things these men relished in doing - blatantly. A Christian is a new creation in Christ and, as he grows in grace, is repelled by his former ways of sin.

The whole point is simply that the Catholic Church cannot lay claim to an "unbroken line" of successors to St. Peter, as if each of these men were specially selected by God to carry on the faith, the gifts and the life of the Apostles. It is far too evident that they haven't, they don't, they can't and they aren't. It is another false teaching that crept into the Roman Catholic Church over the centuries and which causes shame upon ALL of Christianity, whether or not one is Catholic.

4,808 posted on 01/07/2013 10:30:34 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
We can separate ourselves from the love of God when we choose not to love Him --when we sin.

Yup; that stupid David fellow really stepped in it!

Psalm 51

4,812 posted on 01/08/2013 4:54:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; boatbums
We are sealed with God's Holy Spirit until the day of our redemption. He is our guarantee.

It depends not on our faithfulness, but rests on God's promises.

God is able to keep us from falling.

Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 20 For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Jude 1:24-25 24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

4,828 posted on 01/08/2013 7:40:09 AM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; boatbums
Jesus and Peter would have nothing to do with sinners? Aren't we all sinners? Didn't Peter deny Jesus three times? Didn't all of the Apostles abandon Jesus? Weren't they "abominations to the faith?" Yet Jesus forgave them.

That's exactly our point.

That also answers the question of whether someone who is a believer who denies Jesus at some point can still be saved.

What was Jesus response to Peter's denial?

4,829 posted on 01/08/2013 7:44:05 AM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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