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To: annalex
>> Neither I or catholic.com make a dictionary argument.<<

If you did not get the essence of the argument so far, you probably won't ever get it but the words in scripture have meaning. A “priest” in scripture has a specific meaning and duty as does “presbuteros”. 1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood (hierateuma), offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

hierateuma
Short Definition: the act or office of priesthood
Definition: the act or office of priesthood.

You see, it’s we who are a holy priesthood. The Catholics are trying to convince us that priest can be used where “presbuteros” is used in scripture.

(πρεσβυτερος) presbýteros – properly, a mature man having seasoned judgment (experience); an elder

The Catholic Church using the term “priest” is counter to scripture and therefore error.

4,792 posted on 01/07/2013 6:40:18 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Yes, in 1 Peter 2:5 "ιερατευμα αγιον", "holy priesthood" is a reference to priesthood of all Catholic men, and it does derive from "ιερευς". However, it does not refer to sacramental priesthood, but rather to the priestly obligation a head of household has toward his family.

When speaking of ordained priests, St. Paul uses that contentious word again, "επιθεσεως των χειρων του πρεσβυτεριου" -- "imposition of the hands of the priesthood" (1 Timothy 4:14)

Like I said, "πρεσβυτερος" is used intermixed with "ιερευς", but I pointed out several uses where it can only refer to sacramental priesthood.

4,794 posted on 01/07/2013 7:08:51 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: CynicalBear; daniel1212
The Catholic Church using the term “priest” is counter to scripture and therefore error.

But, to them it doesn't matter because "they" get to control words and their meanings. So what that there WAS no priestly office in the first century church making propitiatory offerings? So what that there was no mention in the Apostle's writings designating the offices within a church's structure that mentioned "priests"? So what that the Lord's Supper wasn't even considered an expiatory sacrifice until hundreds of years after all the Apostles had died? That the office as well as the functions exclusive to it developed over the course of centuries makes no difference to those who claim sole right to say what can and must be believed by "Christians" - even if it changes (though they can somehow claim they teach only what has "always and everywhere" been believed.

According to this mindset, the Apostles WERE the first Catholic priests and anyone who disagrees has an hateful and "anti-Catholic" bias. Never mind that the Apostles were the first missionaries and traveling evangelists and never stuck around any local church long enough to become their "priest", if the magesterium has decided the word means what they say it means then all the text of Scripture gets retrofitted to line up with their teaching. That way, no one can possibly have a successful argument against them. It constantly surprises them how slow others are to getting this! Once we get it through our heads that the Roman Church is superior to even Holy Scripture, it will all make perfect sense, don't you see!

On the other hand, those who believe that the Apostles were divinely inspired to write and teach what they did hold to what Scripture actually says and not what power-hungry religionists want it to mean.

4,796 posted on 01/07/2013 7:33:05 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: CynicalBear; annalex; boatbums; metmom; daniel1212
A few points for the discussion: the origin of the Levitical priesthood was like a punishment to Moses for his lack of faith:

And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. – Exodus 4:10-16

The New Testament sealed by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ did away with the need for the Levitical priesthood which is to say the mortal priesthood of the Law.

As a man, Christ’s lineage was Judah, not Aaron. More importantly, Christ is God. He is divine.

Melchizedek was not a mortal priest either and his priesthood preceded the Levitical priesthood.

The priesthood of Christ is unchangeable and endless.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. – Hebrews 7:11-28

Again, Melchizedek is not a mortal priest:

The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. – Psalms 110:4

Interestingly, Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine which points to and corresponds with the Lord’s Supper:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. – Genesis 14:18

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

4,798 posted on 01/07/2013 7:57:08 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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