Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Yes; but it's TOO simple.The excluded middle calls out for representation.
With what you've got here; I'll say 'yes' to the first and "huh?" to the second.
I'd elaborate more on #2, but it would descend back into the abyss of
1. What is 'scripture'
2. You would not have 'scripture' if not for the CHURCH
3. Philip and the Eithopian would show the NEED for the CHURCH to 'explain' 'scripture' to you
4. Go back to #1
HMMmm...
HERETIC!!!
Heat the oil!
And yet look how you treat St. Pete in direct contrast!
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan."
I've been in the wrong here before; and I was rebuked by another poster for it.
It did NOT take a higher authority stepping in to get me to change my ways.
(although that has happened, too. ;^)
They are not "nutcases", -- they are not mentally ill. They are Protestants, a sect that is rapidly losing all touch with authentic Christianity, largely, over the issue of sanctity.
MORMONism turns that illustration on it's ear:
2 Nephi 25:23
Now I, Nephi, do speak somewhat concerning the words which I have ... you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy. .... God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.23?lang=eng
I feel this way at times myself; but probably for different reasons.
Christ promises eternal life, and also a cup and a cross. He never promised a material reward for the faith; just the opposite:
[29] And seek not you what you shall eat, or what you shall drink: and be not lifted up on high. [30] For all these things do the nations of the world seek. But your Father knoweth that you have need of these things. [31] But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. [32] Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom. [33] Sell what you possess and give alms. Make to yourselves bags which grow not old, a treasure in heaven which faileth not: where no thief approacheth, nor moth corrupteth. [34] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.(Luke 12)
Do you not thank Him for all the blessings you receive in this life.
I do and we should, but prosperity is a blessing by way of a test and a lesson, not because of the creature comforts it gives. It is similar to an illness that God might permit to make your spirit stronger, and you should thank Him for that as well.
If you thought they were keeping you from getting into heaven why would you thank Him?
I thank God for all the lessons and for all the chastisement I receive. It would not occur to me to think of our modern civilization as superior because it has electricity and paved roads.
I am blessed with your blessing.
Thank you, mitch.
Christmas is being attacked by athiests and some person feels the need to smash images of the Virgin Mary? The image of the woman who said YES! To God, and trusted even though she sufferred seeing the tortured death of her son. No suffering could be worse than that. God gave the world, our daughters, a beautiful example of what God expects in women, and the fact that we honor her, should not be so offensive. Looking at the examples of women “the world” gives us, Lady GAga, Hillary Clinton, Madonna, Lindsey Lohan, etc. I would say God knew what He was doing. If more mothers were selfless and sacrificing like Mary, the world wouldn’t be where it is today.
Some people must have absolutely no loved ones that past away and still look to their picture with gratitude and honor. Sad to think that they can’t keep a picture or image of someone they admire or love because they consider that idolatry. These people must have had such horrific childhoods that they have no one in heaven that they call on and remember in special moments, and that’s why they don’t understand. Poor people, pray for them.
I’m so grateful to God for the many gifts He has given our faith. When I walk by a Beloved Mother statue, with my baby, I remind her how special Jesus’ mother is, and with that reminder, the enemy doesn’t stand a chance. I have 4 girls, and 1 boy, my oldest girl is almost 17, no boyfriends yet and her goal is to get into Yale. Saints are role models for our children and very needed. They are humans that sufferred and overcame great difficulties and their stories allow our children to understand much about life and God. Thank you God.
“Misunderstanding is not something that people here try to work through; it’s something they celebrate.”
Thank you, MD.
“And it became clear that this sort of conversation is nothing I want to have anything to do with.”
Thank you,MD.
This forum is often a refutation of St. Paul’s admonition to us: “Anticipate one another in respect”.
There is only one winner when people, all of whom sincerely profess to love the Lord Jesus, turn on one another.
It never says "all believers"; St. Paul called saints those he wished to call saints. The most elabored address involving "saints" is
To the church of God that is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that invoke the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2)
It seems from this that all believers ("all that invoke the name of our Lord Jesus Christ") are not saints but are "called to be saints". That is the Catholic usage of "saint" today: one whose sanctification is complete.
I agree that the usage changed a bit since the early Church, -- same as the usage of "presbyteros" changed from "elder" to "priest". That is because the Church grew, and the persecution grew - a need appeared to distinguish those who "invoke the name of our Lord" but do not pass into matyrdom from proven saints who achieved martyrdom.
Since 726 is now gone, I do not know what was the post of mine that was “changing the direction of the thread”, but I am sorry if I did that.
There’s a whole lot of “rebuking” going on around here.
Consequently, something beautiful -—like, “ Come let us reason together”, gets lost.
We had bad popes indeed, but no bad pope left any legacy is bad encyclicals, apostolic letters, and such. He was bad and now he is gone.
Luther, on the other hand, remains very much at the root of the heresy he started. It is then appropriate to see what moral character the founder of Protestantism had.
Further, no, we did not have popes "way worse" that Luther. Some were boozers, womanizers, and self-serving jerks. None got themselves ex-communicated and started sects in defiance of that.
Incidentally, -- since you bring this up, -- Luther's shenanigans with the fish barrel woman are worse than a mere sin of the flesh because they sealed his ex-communication by acts that could not be easily repaired if at all. Before, he could return to the Church by fixing his theological errors publicly and repenting. Now he had a woman whose life he ruined by snatching her out of the monastery, for whom he became responsible as head of the family he built illicitly.
My teacher in Scripture, Bishop Fulton Sheen, had a great exegesis for that passage and it’s meaning, but it would require a whole new thread.
In any case, the Lord Jesus was not addressing his beloved Apostle Peter as Satan, in the literal sense of Scripture.
If I say anything more about that on this thread it would be hi-jacking the thread..
"Statistics are no substitute for judgment."
-- Henry Clay
But it HAS to be said; or else the 'sinless' claim for Mary holds no water.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.