Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
See post 890
Your 'saints' are the lucky ones; for NOT having to stand at the Great White Throne Judgement.
Cynical bear admits he/she believes that Jesus is God and in the Holy Trinity explained in the New Advent link
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
Metmom has on many occasions discussed her belief in the Trinity - that God is revealed in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. She has NEVER said anything that would cause someone to doubt her very orthodox understanding of the nature of God. She has defended the deity of Jesus Christ on threads many times. The problem with asking this question of one person - where it is not the subject being discussed - is that it acts as a personal challenge where you are daring someone to answer whatever you deem she must answer, or else you will imply she is a "heretic" if she doesn't answer.
It is a form of stalking and you and a few others have done it before. In fact, it is a common tactic used when there is no good rebuttal to what someone has stated. It goes back to her refusal to say what "denomination" she belonged to, and she chooses to not play along with the game. She has that right as does everyone else here and she shouldn't be harrassed with a question and answer game. Besides, if she is unable to log on to this thread due to other obligations, such a challenge sits out there unanswered and it is made to appear that she disagrees with the question's basis or is afraid to answer - which is definitely NOT the reason. You have been given this explanation before yet here you are throwing out the challenge again wording it like she had at one time denied the Trinity - which she never has and you have failed to ever produce proof she did.
I don't blame her a bit. The "game" is dishonest because, no matter how many times it is answered in thread after thread, it will be tossed out again as the heat is on to give a reply to a point you are unable to. Stop the games.
This??
From YOU???
When we get to 1,000 replies; can we PLEASE get back to the angels dancing on a pin thingy?
“”Metmom has on many occasions discussed her belief in the Trinity -””
Then A simple yes or no answer should not be a problem.I don’t follow her around.
Why is this such a difficult thing to ask, and why can’t a simple question be answered by someone?
Even if she does not believe in the Trinity and Jesus is God , I would only want to show her the error and not attack
I agree wholeheartedly. Well stated.
What's your point. I'm never afraid answer questions about my faith.
I also make sure I take the time to pray people like you
Do you have a problem with sincerity?
Of course, I don’t think the Church is a cult; that’s silliness and whackjob territory. St. Paul, St. Augustine, St. Francis, John, St. John Chrysostom, etc, etc. were not what we call cultists today. The Church has existed since Pentecost, wrote, preserved and protected Holy Scriptures, the teachings of Our Lord from the apostles through the one, holy and universal Church, the visible Body of Christ today with a billion members and Christ as their head.
Those that say ‘cult’ here are worthy of ridicule. Check out the list of those and you’ll see some pretty funny characters.
And no, that’s not a particularly good list. For example, it assumes sola scriptura which is a foundation of a great many cults, virtually all the Christian ones such as Jim Jones and Koresh. “Christian” cults are heretical offshoots, usually non-Catholic offshoots.
These are heretics to the orthodox Christian faith. That’s missing from your list - and it’s a key factor in a cult. I find it revealing that it’s left off.
However, I do think it ironic that according to the list, you’re a cult. It adds more humor to the topic.
If you really knew scripture you would have known what I believe all along. It’s pretty well known that I believe in Sola Scriptura. Catholics somehow need the church to tell them what to believe? I use scripture and the Holy Spirit. Now if Catholics could just show from scripture the bodily assumption of Mary and not some conjecture as the basis for their beliefs.
You are the one who claims to know that "Catholics make idols." Don't you know what one is? I think it would be wise to know before one calls a billion Christians idolaters.
This is about the same place your posts started their dodginess on the topic before. I think the same ignorance is being exposed again.
Now let the fear of the LORD be upon you. Judge carefully, for with the LORD our God there is no injustice or partiality or bribery." (II Chronicles 19:7)
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: (Galatians 2:6)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: (Acts 10:34)
Who shows no partiality to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of his hands? (Job 34:19)
For God does not show favoritism. (Romans 2:11)
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. (Ephesians 6:9)
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. (Deuteronomy 10:17)
There are more, but I think the Lord has made it pretty clear that we are equal in His eyes and one person does not hold sway over Him more than any other person. Honoring someone who is a example to us of faith and strength is good, but we must realize that people are prone to adoring and worshiping idols - of all kinds - and that does not honor God.
How could I be a cult? I revere no one as leader but Christ. I have no followers. Not one of those things on the list applies to me. On the other hand most apply to the RCC.
I believe you don't know the meaning of Scripture.
2Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
I didn't recognize those words as coming from you. Is that what you honestly believe about us?
Which version of Sola Scriptura, The sufficiency of Scripture as posed by Luther, or the exclusivity of Scripture posed by third and fourth generation Reformers? There is a significant difference.
Peace be with you.
That’s obvious to me. No Catholic can understand how anyone could know the meaning of scripture without the RCC. They go to the RCC first then to claim to go to Mary then to Christ. How could a Catholic understand how anyone could know the meaning of scripture without the RCC coming between them and scripture.
In this one post you have attempted to read my mind, used what you conjured to call me a liar, all regarding a posting by Mad Dawg. Are you feeling OK?
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