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Catholics, Protestants, and Immaculate Mary
The Catholic Thing ^ | December 8, 2012 | David G. Bonagura, Jr.

Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer

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To: stfassisi

See post 890


901 posted on 12/13/2012 8:39:06 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: narses
But then there are nutcases who deny that there are Saints alive today and forever in Heaven.

Your 'saints' are the lucky ones; for NOT having to stand at the Great White Throne Judgement.

902 posted on 12/13/2012 8:40:37 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CynicalBear; All

Cynical bear admits he/she believes that Jesus is God and in the Holy Trinity explained in the New Advent link

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm


903 posted on 12/13/2012 8:47:18 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi; CynicalBear; metmom
These debates are about Christian faith and what each of us believe, so it is not out of line to ask this simple yes or no question in a supposedly Christian forum. Even an I don’t know is at least an honest answer. Metmom has no problem telling us Catholic’s how she feels about our beliefs.

Metmom has on many occasions discussed her belief in the Trinity - that God is revealed in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. She has NEVER said anything that would cause someone to doubt her very orthodox understanding of the nature of God. She has defended the deity of Jesus Christ on threads many times. The problem with asking this question of one person - where it is not the subject being discussed - is that it acts as a personal challenge where you are daring someone to answer whatever you deem she must answer, or else you will imply she is a "heretic" if she doesn't answer.

It is a form of stalking and you and a few others have done it before. In fact, it is a common tactic used when there is no good rebuttal to what someone has stated. It goes back to her refusal to say what "denomination" she belonged to, and she chooses to not play along with the game. She has that right as does everyone else here and she shouldn't be harrassed with a question and answer game. Besides, if she is unable to log on to this thread due to other obligations, such a challenge sits out there unanswered and it is made to appear that she disagrees with the question's basis or is afraid to answer - which is definitely NOT the reason. You have been given this explanation before yet here you are throwing out the challenge again wording it like she had at one time denied the Trinity - which she never has and you have failed to ever produce proof she did.

I don't blame her a bit. The "game" is dishonest because, no matter how many times it is answered in thread after thread, it will be tossed out again as the heat is on to give a reply to a point you are unable to. Stop the games.

904 posted on 12/13/2012 8:48:17 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: stfassisi
You post here on FR nearly every day so you should have no problem answering with a simple yes or no.

This??

From YOU???

905 posted on 12/13/2012 8:50:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: All

When we get to 1,000 replies; can we PLEASE get back to the angels dancing on a pin thingy?


906 posted on 12/13/2012 8:52:39 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums; metmom

“”Metmom has on many occasions discussed her belief in the Trinity -””

Then A simple yes or no answer should not be a problem.I don’t follow her around.

Why is this such a difficult thing to ask, and why can’t a simple question be answered by someone?

Even if she does not believe in the Trinity and Jesus is God , I would only want to show her the error and not attack


907 posted on 12/13/2012 8:58:54 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: boatbums

I agree wholeheartedly. Well stated.


908 posted on 12/13/2012 8:59:06 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Elsie
This?? From YOU???

What's your point. I'm never afraid answer questions about my faith.

I also make sure I take the time to pray people like you

Do you have a problem with sincerity?

909 posted on 12/13/2012 9:04:38 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: CynicalBear

Of course, I don’t think the Church is a cult; that’s silliness and whackjob territory. St. Paul, St. Augustine, St. Francis, John, St. John Chrysostom, etc, etc. were not what we call cultists today. The Church has existed since Pentecost, wrote, preserved and protected Holy Scriptures, the teachings of Our Lord from the apostles through the one, holy and universal Church, the visible Body of Christ today with a billion members and Christ as their head.

Those that say ‘cult’ here are worthy of ridicule. Check out the list of those and you’ll see some pretty funny characters.

And no, that’s not a particularly good list. For example, it assumes sola scriptura which is a foundation of a great many cults, virtually all the Christian ones such as Jim Jones and Koresh. “Christian” cults are heretical offshoots, usually non-Catholic offshoots.

These are heretics to the orthodox Christian faith. That’s missing from your list - and it’s a key factor in a cult. I find it revealing that it’s left off.

However, I do think it ironic that according to the list, you’re a cult. It adds more humor to the topic.


910 posted on 12/13/2012 9:06:25 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: stfassisi

If you really knew scripture you would have known what I believe all along. It’s pretty well known that I believe in Sola Scriptura. Catholics somehow need the church to tell them what to believe? I use scripture and the Holy Spirit. Now if Catholics could just show from scripture the bodily assumption of Mary and not some conjecture as the basis for their beliefs.


911 posted on 12/13/2012 9:09:54 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
You tell me.

You are the one who claims to know that "Catholics make idols." Don't you know what one is? I think it would be wise to know before one calls a billion Christians idolaters.

This is about the same place your posts started their dodginess on the topic before. I think the same ignorance is being exposed again.

912 posted on 12/13/2012 9:12:25 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom
No matter how it's rationalized, esteeming another person as Catholics do to Mary and then the saints, is yet another direct violation of a clear command of Scripture, that is to not show partiality to people.

Now let the fear of the LORD be upon you. Judge carefully, for with the LORD our God there is no injustice or partiality or bribery." (II Chronicles 19:7)

But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: (Galatians 2:6)

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: (Acts 10:34)

Who shows no partiality to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of his hands? (Job 34:19)

For God does not show favoritism. (Romans 2:11)

And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. (Ephesians 6:9)

For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. (Deuteronomy 10:17)

There are more, but I think the Lord has made it pretty clear that we are equal in His eyes and one person does not hold sway over Him more than any other person. Honoring someone who is a example to us of faith and strength is good, but we must realize that people are prone to adoring and worshiping idols - of all kinds - and that does not honor God.

913 posted on 12/13/2012 9:12:30 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: D-fendr

How could I be a cult? I revere no one as leader but Christ. I have no followers. Not one of those things on the list applies to me. On the other hand most apply to the RCC.


914 posted on 12/13/2012 9:12:36 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
If you really knew scripture you would have known what I believe all along.

I believe you don't know the meaning of Scripture.

915 posted on 12/13/2012 9:13:04 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: D-fendr
When you put faith in the artifact to protect you it’s an idol. Crush the artifacts and statues. Call them symbols or whatever you want. If Catholics can’t get by without them and somehow believe that by having them around they protect them they are idols just as the serpent was for the Israelites.

2Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

916 posted on 12/13/2012 9:17:56 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Mad Dawg
Just FYI, what you are arguing against is NL’s quoting of a post by me.

I didn't recognize those words as coming from you. Is that what you honestly believe about us?

917 posted on 12/13/2012 9:18:02 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: CynicalBear
"It’s pretty well known that I believe in Sola Scriptura."

Which version of Sola Scriptura, The sufficiency of Scripture as posed by Luther, or the exclusivity of Scripture posed by third and fourth generation Reformers? There is a significant difference.

Peace be with you.

918 posted on 12/13/2012 9:18:51 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: stfassisi
>>I believe you don't know the meaning of Scripture.<<

That’s obvious to me. No Catholic can understand how anyone could know the meaning of scripture without the RCC. They go to the RCC first then to claim to go to Mary then to Christ. How could a Catholic understand how anyone could know the meaning of scripture without the RCC coming between them and scripture.

919 posted on 12/13/2012 9:21:26 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: boatbums; Mad Dawg
"This is what is believed, contrary to your statements:"

In this one post you have attempted to read my mind, used what you conjured to call me a liar, all regarding a posting by Mad Dawg. Are you feeling OK?

920 posted on 12/13/2012 9:25:06 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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