Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
I think you’ve described us all.
Me, at least...
Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions. [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm]
Denying Christ’s full payment for our sins is blasphemy.
Ya think? LOL
I’m thinking metmom is quite pleased with that observation! LOL
It is looking at the glass instead of through the glass.
So god repeatedly urges us to bring him glory even though it has nothing to do with our salvation. Why can't God bring Himself glory? How is it that our works cannot save us, but can glorify omnipotent God?
Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin
That is a different argument. The Catholic teaching agrees with this: without the Sacrifice of the Cross there is no salvation. Let's remember this when you ask why crucifixes show the Sacrifice of the Cross.
Yes, first Catholics gathered in private homes. They were persecuting us, you know.
Where do you think it leaves us? We pray fro their speedy progress out: the souls in Purgatory have already been judged and saved by the grace of Christ (). Unlike so many Protestants who imagine themselves saved before they are judged.
If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire. (1 Cor. 3:15)
“Well, which is it. Is he playing games or clearly stating?”
Games. He clearly states his views on Easter in many threads before, then here when I point out his distinctly unChristian views, he denies saying what he clearly said. Games.
LOL
Romans 7:15-25 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Then Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
And Acts 17:28 ... 28 for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’;...
Philippians 2:13 .... for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
Some here say:
“All of the Lent and Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.”
“God doesn’t smile down on people who celebrate Easter.”
Do you agree?
The problem with that is that those sins can never be fully paid for because Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The only way those sins can be paid for is through death, eternal separation from God, not by suffering. Additionally, eternal life is a GIFT. It is not earned, it is accepted.
Are you the 'accuser'?
What catholic is condoning the sin of 'I'm all yours, Mary'?? Denying Jesus the Savior is a sin that is off the charts while claiming Christianity. They already submitting to denying Jesus like satan has/done. There is only ONE GOD ONE SAVIOR and if one doesn't belong to HIM he's a goner and nothing else matters. And to make matters worse, Rome lifted the pope up to a higher status in their worldly way after his death - they celebrate and condone it all. EVIL has no limits.
unforgivable and suggesting that grave sin has no consequences is like walking on the edge of the abyss,
Meditate on your own words - and pray you don't loose your footing before you go directly to The Father. Only those that belong to Jesus are His.
These verses reflect Catholic teaching, as I explained. For example, John 6:28-29 explains that faith incorporates certain works, and 1 John 3:21-24 lists both faith and “to love one another as he commanded us”, which is works of love.
This is a childish post: posting scripture already explained to you in large letters and without referring in any way to the explanation you received, while the scripture as posted contradicts your position. If someone forgot his glasses he might even think you made an argument or something. Are you trying to imitate Metmom?
Sorry. What lie? Long-winded sentences of your opinions to not make your opinions proof of anything. Unlike the "by faith alone" which was an intentional mistranslation on which Protestantism is built.
”the Council of Trent selected and elevated to official status the notion of justification by faith plus works, which was only one of the doctrines of justification in the medieval theologians and ancient fathers.
Pelikan is a good historian of Lutheran persuasion,who ended up in the Orthodox Church. With all respect to him, on points separating us from him and you, I'd rather hear a Catholic source opining about Trent. This is what Trent was: it answered the theological claims of the early reformers and clarified the Catholic faith. Yes, there was a need to clarify or else there would be no Luther.
the kind of faith which effects works
The idea that faith "effects" works is an intentionally unclear statement designed to hide the controversy when Protestants are in defensive posture. Yes, mature well-formed faith incorporates the works of faith. No, no kind of faith produces works like liver produces bile: one has to do the works of faith on his free will.
It is you whom i see deflecting criticism ... you courteously wrote
Do my responses to you then contradict anything I wrote now? and if they do, why would that be "deflecting criticism"? People running from criticism do mot post links to the arguments they had made. I indeed salute your classic-Protestant position as it is less corrupt than modern Evangelical Protestantism as a whole. It is still corrupt because it is not Catholic and not scriptural. The one correct authentic soteriology is in the canons of Trent. The rest are at best approximations.
He does.
Why can't God bring Himself glory?
He can and He does.
How is it that our works cannot save us, but can glorify omnipotent God?
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
In a nutshell, overcoming evil with good glorifies God and brings honor to Him.
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
That is a different argument. The Catholic teaching agrees with this: without the Sacrifice of the Cross there is no salvation. Let's remember this when you ask why crucifixes show the Sacrifice of the Cross.
It's not the continual dying, it's the death (past tense) the shed blood, and the resurrection.
The empty cross is a reminder of the victory Christ had over death and the grave.
He is RISEN!
“The empty cross is a reminder of the victory Christ had over death and the grave.”
Of course, and yet your ally here says:
“All of the Lent and Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.”
“God doesn’t smile down on people who celebrate Easter.”
Very odd.
How anyone can justify being saved or any hope of being saved while to the dying breath saying "I'm all yours Mary" and telling his subjects to do the same SHOULD BE beyond any catholic as there is no appropriate context in which to even say such things.
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