Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Is that what you say about this one too?
Our Father, Who art in heaven Hallowed be Thy Name; Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
Like the first sin - listening to 'evil' that persuaded them from what God said/to ignore God's Word. They didn't believe God's Word IS the final authority. Do you know anyone else like that?
Now why would anyone who actually rejects God even be worried about salvation? Wouldn’t it be obvious that if they reject God salvation isn’t something of importance to them? Have you seen anyone in this thread who has “rejected God”?
BTW All that CCC stuff isn't scripture.
Matthew 6:9 "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
Why would you want to spend eternity with God when you don't believe HE is THE FINAL AUTHORITY? HIS WORD IS FINAL.
Those who hear and obey HIS WORD, the FINAL AUTHORITY is assured of their eternal life. We chose LIFE and not DEATH.
We chose JESUS who is The Way, The TRUTH, The LIFE.
Prayer comes from the heart. We MUST worship God in spirit and truth and NOT by ROTE.
John 4:23-24 ...'But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth.'
If your repeating the prayer you're reciting it from it's origin which is Christ
Honestly ,dear CB, dialogue here on FR can become so nit picky when there is no need for it.
Evidently you didn’t get the point. I DON”T “repeat” it verbatim. And no one should. It’s a form of how to pray. If you can’t put your own words into that form then you are simply repeating words.
You’re still repeating the prayer from it’s original source,you are just adding your prayer intentions like we all do
We actually agree on something!
Jesus were showing(for one thing) is to pray to The Father. You call that nit picking? How much of what Jesus said to do catholics disobey?
ROTE comes from a hardened heart. So we agree on nothing!
I do believe Christ is the final authority, I don't limit Christianity to a book religion because The Holy Spirit goes far beyond what can ever be encompassed in a book.
There are people who abide in Christ who are deaf,dumb, mentally impaired without the ability to read or comprehend a Bible.
Perhaps some depth of thought should help you to realize this?
How could a catholic pray that when His WORD is His Will? And they deliberate chose 'man's' will/word instead. Until they humble themselves and believe in their heart His Word is their FINAL Authority they are not doing His Will.
"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'" Matt 15:8,9
So you know what I do how?
How could a catholic pray that when His WORD is His Will? “”And they deliberate chose ‘man’s’ will/word instead””
We don’t follow man’s will, no matter what you claim.
I would like you stop posting me ,like I asked you before.
From the words of Sacred Scripture
“But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.” Matthew 17:20
I don't believe that he would have adhered to that kind of theology. It doesn't fit with the mentality of someone who is born again.
And he didn't *found* any religion. His intent was to reform the corruption which existed within the Catholic church. The RCC kicked him out cause it didn't want to hear it.
Sin separates us from God.
We need to repent of it and ask His forgiveness.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
That’s all we need to know.
There’s no need to complicate it beyond that.
YES!!!! You're getting it!!!
When parents adopt their children, does the child's misbehavior undo the adoption?
Is the parent's adoption conditional on the child's performance? Do they become not the parent's children because of disobedience or does the disobedience only interfere with the communication between the parents and child?
Do you understand a father's heart?
decide for yourself...
From Luther's table talk...
Although women are ashamed to admit such things, both Scripture and experience teach that among many thousands there is not one to whom God gives the grace to maintain pure chastity. A woman does not have the power [to do this] herself.
Men have broad chests and narrow hips; therefore they have wisdom. Women have narrow chests and broad hips. Women ought to be domestic; the creation reveals it, for they have broad backsides and hips, so that they should sit still. [WA, TR I, no. 55, p. 19; cf. Hazlitt-Chalmers translation, p. 299]Luther
when women speak well, it is not praiseworthy. It befits them to stammer and not be able to speak well; that adorns them much better. [WA, TR IV, no. 4081, pp. 121-122]Luther
what goes in through women's ears comes out again through their mouths. For that reason a secret is to be entrusted only to a dead woman. [WA, TR IV, no. 4434, p. 311]
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