Catholics, Protestants, and Immaculate Mary

The Catholic Thing ^ | December 8, 2012 | David G. Bonagura, Jr.

[mgist]

CynicalBear, do you also believe you die and go to sleep until the trumpet alarm sounds? Honest question.

[CynicalBear]

>>I would like to stop active participation in this thread, as it circled back to the issue of once-saved-always-saved <<

Not unless you bring it back there. My post was showing that your freind, according to the RCC, will not be saved unless he becomes a member of the Catholic Church.

[CynicalBear]

Ooops. It appears I hit enter before I finished what I wanted to post as a response.

[CynicalBear]

>>do you also believe you die and go to sleep until the trumpet alarm sounds? Honest question.<<

How many outstanding questions do I have to you that haven't been answered?

Anyway. The point you seem to be trying to make by "having them alive and cognizent there is that they can communicate for you right? Well, that either isn't so or is really dumb. If they are alive and congnizent there so are we. See my post here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2966953/posts?page=3317#3317 . Either we all have direct access to the throne or none of us do including those who have passed from this life. We do know one thing for sure. The souls of those who will be killed during the tribulation for Christ's sake will be in heaven asking God when their deaths will be avenged. So it's either we are all alive and cognizent in heaven or none of us are right? Now, if you would like to have that conversation we can.

[mgist]

Catholics believe that this chapter is addressed to some among the Corinthians who denied Jesus' resurrection: St. Paul, is trying to advise the Jews who had a hard time believing in the new concept of resurrection. Paul tries to explain Jesus' resurrection making the case that Jesus' resurrection was seen by him personally and many other people,, and in verse 18 goes on to say basically, What sense it make if Jesus didn't resurrect? That would mean that those who have died, perished. He asks, "What would the point of Babtism be"? (He was being faceteous, or would that be asking a rhetorical question)

Either way, 1 Corinthians 15, needs to be read as a whole.

Not saying your wrong, just we believe differently.

17 And if Christ be not risen again, your faith is vain, for you are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also, who have fallen asleep in Christ, have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, the first-fruits of them that sleep.

21 *For by a man came death, and by a man the resurrection of the dead.

[mgist]

Sorry for my ignorance, I have a hard time keeping up withmthese various schools of thought. It is fascinating.

[mgist]

You are very knowledgable, I love that. Very few Catholics are willing to “quarrel” with others and deal with these... Interesting accusations. Don’t get too irritated with this though, Protestants are converting to the Catholic church in large numbers. Converts make the best Catholics because they understand these other perspectives very well. In all fairness I say they don’t understand Catholicism, but I don’t understand the many variations of Protestants either. Your right though, I’m out too. God Bless.

[CynicalBear]

Don’t ever be “sorry” for not understanding something. It took me much study of scripture without the influence of preconcieved ideology to get to the peaceful place I am now. I also didn’t understand much when I started this study. I had been brought up in one of the mainline “religions” but had questions they just couldn’t answer to my satisfaction. It wasn’t untill I turly begged God to show me what truth was and relied only on what I knew was His word through the written scriptures. I stayed with scripture because I understood that even during the time of the apostles error was creeping in which they corrected often. I knew that with them gone there really wasn’t anyone truly trustworthy who had personally been taught by Jesus. That’s where my name CynicalBear comes from. I am Cynical of any writings or teachings after the apostles. If I can’t verify with what they taught I don’t ascribe to it.

[daniel1212]

I never say him do so before, and it i easy to forget, but that is encouraged:

“What I would suggest, if you wish to cut down on your response time, is to steal stuff from other folks. Steal things from my newsletters. Go to Catholic.com (Catholic Answers website) and use their search engine to look for articles on whatever topic you’re discussing. Don’t hesitate to lift verbiage from an article here and an article there.

If you want to cite your source fine, but if you want to leave that out- I don’t see any problem, as long as you’re doing it in private correspondence.” (Apologetics for The Masses by John Martignoni, http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2550)

[mgist]

One last post to all. Today's reading (Catholic Mass)

I see a lot of dysfunction in our society. Broken families leave children way too vulnerable. I love the Catholic church that saved me from a broken family, and believe that there but for the grace of God go I. We are all called to evangelize, and it begins in our homes, with our example. I pray that you keep your homes with love, and with God, in whatever faith helps you follows His truths, beginning with our families. Sirach 3, is for all of us. Sirach, Chapter 3

RESPONSIBILITIES TO PARENTS*

1 Children, listen to me, your father; act accordingly, that you may be safe.
2 For the Lord sets a father in honor over his children and confirms a mother’s authority over her sons.
3 Those who honor their father atone for sins; 4 they store up riches who respect their mother. 5 Those who honor their father will have joy in their own children, and when they pray they are heard. 6 Those who respect their father will live a long life; those who obey the Lord honor their mother.
7 Those who fear the Lord honor their father, and serve their parents as masters.
8 In word and deed honor your father, that all blessings may come to you.a 9 A father’s blessing gives a person firm roots, but a mother’s curse uproots the growing plant.b 10 Do not glory in your father’s disgrace, for that is no glory to you!
11 A father’s glory is glory also for oneself; they multiply sin who demean their mother.c
12 My son, be steadfast in honoring your father; do not grieve him as long as he lives.d
13 Even if his mind fails, be considerate of him; do not revile him because you are in your prime.
14 Kindness to a father will not be forgotten; it will serve as a sin offering—it will take lasting root.
15 In time of trouble it will be recalled to your advantage, like warmth upon frost it will melt away your sins.
16 Those who neglect their father are like blasphemers; those who provoke their mother are accursed by their Creator.e HUMILITY*
17 My son, conduct your affairs with humility, and you will be loved more than a giver of gifts.
18 Humble yourself the more, the greater you are, and you will find mercy in the sight of God.† f
20 For great is the power of the Lord; by the humble he is glorified.
21 What is too sublime for you, do not seek; do not reach into things that are hidden from you.g
22 What is committed to you, pay heed to; what is hidden is not your concern.
23 In matters that are beyond you do not meddle, when you have been shown more than you can understand.
24 Indeed, many are the conceits of human beings; evil imaginations lead them astray. DOCILITY*
25 Without the pupil of the eye, light is missing; without knowledge, wisdom is missing.
26 A stubborn heart will fare badly in the end; those who love danger will perish in it.
27 A stubborn heart will have many a hurt; adding sin to sin is madness.
28 When the proud are afflicted, there is no cure; for they are offshoots of an evil plant.h
29 The mind of the wise appreciates proverbs, and the ear that listens to wisdom rejoices.

[daniel1212]

It is this post: http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2816599&postcount=4

But maybe they are one and the same person.

[metmom]

My understanding is the attributions are for the FR RM’s benefit to check for copyright violations.

Simply posting stuff without attribution doesn’t automatically tell you that it’s OK, like the guy you cited says it is.

That’s good info for the RM to know, but still, without attribution, there’s no way of knowing it IS OK.

[annalex]

your freind, according to the RCC, will not be saved unless he becomes a member of the Catholic Church.

Not entirely correct. He may not have an opportunity to accomplish a formal conversion, but Christ will give him an opportunity to convert in his heart as he dies. That is the meaning of impossibility of salvation outside the Church.

[CynicalBear]

Sure it is.

[Elsie]

Let's presume that the 'saved' actually DO go to heaven after death.

Then WHO is going to be raised from the graves???

[annalex]

few Catholics are willing to “quarrel” with others and deal with these... Interesting accusations.

That is bad. This is something we can learn from the Protestants: they do a lot with the truncated faith of theirs, while we have been given so much and share our faith just barely. Also, we must remember that for one hostile propagandist who will never learn anything there are dozens who read the thread and for them, the seed falls in the right place.

Don’t get too irritated

I simply don't always have time and some posts seem like waste of my time. I think I gave this thread an honest effort.

Two paintings from my favorite Protestant follow.

Sower With Setting Sun

Vincent van Gogh
1888



Painter on His Way to Work

Vincent van Gogh
1888

[stfassisi]

I simply don't always have time and some posts seem like waste of my time

I limit my posting here on FR for the exact reason.

Daily Mass, Eucharistic Adoration,Praying Rosaries ,Divine Mercy Chaplet,The Chaplet of Saint Michael,Morning and Evening prayers, all these trump FR posting for me. Heck,even walking the dog trumps FR for me these days too.

I'm convinced that rehashing some of the same things over and over here on FR is the devil's distraction.

As a good ole friend of yours and mine recently said..."let the heathens rage" .

[boatbums]

On some level,I find it interesting to see beliefs of people who hate Catholics. There are so many religions that don’t even believe in Jesus and you have such a problem with Catholics? Even if I wasn’t faithful or Catholic that would never make sense to me. I find it interesting. You will NEVER find hate sites created by Catholics anywhere.

I've heard it said that the opposite of love is NOT hate but indifference. Hate is a strong feeling and it indicates that there is an emotional response. There is a thin line between hate and love. We can love someone strongly and get angry enough that we think we hate them. If there were no emotion involved at all, one would just be indifferent. I sincerely believe that there is not one person on this thread who "hates" Catholics. If we truly did not love nor care about the salvation of others, we would never bother to come on these threads and dispute with them. Their salvation would be of no concern of ours and we wouldn't care less what they believed because if we didn't love them, our indifference would have us not bother to try to talk about the truth. I, obviously, cannot talk about another's inward heart motivations, but I can assure you I do not hate anyone.

As to your contention that there are no anti-Protestant hate sites out there created by Catholics, you must have missed the many that get excerpted here on any given day and which cause the heated arguments we find ourselves making to dispute them. I guess hate is a relative term. If you are a Catholic and you are fighting against non-Catholics over doctrinal differences, you aren't "hating" on them, you are trying to correct them. But if a non-Catholic Christian comes on here and disputes over Catholic doctrine they think is wrong and spiritually damaging, they are haters. Is this your view? Don't you see how inequitable it is to think this way?

If people come onto a Religion Forum thread to discuss the topic of the thread, they should be able to do so without the accusation of hate being suggested is their motivation. If we didn't care about souls, we wouldn't bother. THAT'S really the opposite of love - indifference.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

There ain't NO ONE 'in heaven 'asleep'. It's the dead one's on EARTH!!

Like MARY; for instance.

Where is Mary buried?

[daniel1212]

Actually, it is not only for the RM, but a warranted courtesy to source who created it, or supplied it, and is a safeguard against copyright claims, as the “fair use” clause, while somewhat ambiguous in details, allows at least portions of copyrighted material to be used in works of news, commentary, parody, education.., with non-profit use having the most favor.

This is a large issue today, as some ppl make their living with power tools, etc., others with a pen or keyboard, and while a car cannot be reproduced at little expense, software, books or articles which an author depends on for income can be, and every copy given away can reduce his income.

Of course, it can increase his reputation also and which in turn can increase his income. My own thoughts are that if you post it on the Internet, expect and allow people to make copies (plural, due to vulnerability of data) for their household, and share at lest some of it, but for free and unchanged and with attribution, and without selling it.

And for those in Christian ministry free sharing should esp. be allowed, and those who prohibit and criminalize free sharing as described should not be in Christian ministry, but those who make money off it without permission should suffer worse.