Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
And worship on Sunday is PAGAN, right? As is celebrating Easter and Christmas? Or do you now deny that you have said such before?
That applies to everything Catholics believe in. Ex. "Mary, Mother of God." Or does that rule only apply to non Catholics for you?
Methinks that perhaps you don’t realize how many of the non-Catholic FReepers you are discussing with are former Catholics, having been raised IN the Catholic church until adulthood.And yet -- assuming their claims are honest - they learned so little they still claim silly stuff like:
“..The Catholic church teaches salvation by works...”And then they want us to accept their silly claims as real!
Jesus died. Past tense.
Jesus rose again. Past tense.
Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven. Present tense.
Jesus is not still dying. If He was, sin could not have been forgiven because His blood would not have been shed and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
What Jesus is doing in heaven now is interceding for the saints (believers) according to the will of God.
Besides, His resurrected body does not have any blood in it. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Leaving Him on the cross and claiming that He is still being sacrificed is wrong on so many levels.
If you think you’re drinking Jesus’ blood, it’s not HIS blood. That was poured out already. Past tense.
They make assumptions about EVERYTHING.
Which one? why?
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
We ought to obey God, rather than men.
On that topic, many things about Protestantism are wrong but what really fills a Catholic heart with disgust is its servility to civil power.
Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
Time doesn’t matter at the Holy Eucharist because it works against time. It worked for the first priests BEFORE He died and rose. The Eucharistic Jesus dies and rises on the Altar.
Didn’t you claim at one point to be Catholic and to teach Catechism? You have a startling ignorance of Catholic basics.
If salvation is not by works, then I can know I’m saved without being a member of the Catholic church, without being baptized, without going to confession, without going to communion, without doing penance, without going to mass every Sunday, without last rites, without participating in any of the sacraments, or without anything else the Catholic church insists is necessary.
Correct?
1 Corinthians 11
18
For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it,
19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
20
When you meet together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat.
21
For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.
22
What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
23
For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24
and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27
Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
28
Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29
For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
30
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
31
But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged.
32
But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
33
So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another—
34
if any one is hungry, let him eat at home—lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come.
St. Cyril of Jerusalem in his Catecheses (c. 350 A.D.) says
Since Christ himself has declared the bread to be his body, who can have any further doubt? Since he himself has said quite categorically, This is my blood, who would dare to question and say that it is not his blood?
Therefore, is is with complete assurance that we receive the bread and wine as the body and blood of Christ. His body is given to us under the symbol of bread, and his blood is given to us under the symbol of wine, in order to make us by receiving them one body and one blood with him. Having his body and blood in our members, we become bearers of Christ and sharers, as Saint Peter says, in the divine nature.
Nope.
Heb 10:38
But my just one shall live by faith ...
Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him (God) ...
The Bible is equally clear on the saving role of good works in the lives of the faithful.
1 Pet 2:12
Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that if they speak of you as evildoers, they may observe your good works and glorify God on the day of visitation.
Rev 2:2
I know your works, your labor, and your endurance ...
Mt 5:16
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.
Mt 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
Mt 25:34-36
Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’
John 6. Because He was talking to the Jews who had been following Him and was screening out those He knew really didn’t believe. They were still trying to make Him the literal, earthly King of he Jews. Jesus knew that Jews were prohibited to eat blood per Mosaic Law and Jesus was weeding out those who knew He had replace Mosaic Law. An explanation can be found here: http://www.voiceofjesus.org/eatmyfleshc.html
That's cause Catholicism can't tolerate the competition.
That aside....
Do you not believe that one should obey the laws of the land? That one should speed? Commit murder? Steal? Extort money? Not pay taxes?
Matthew 22:15-22 15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. 16 And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. 17 Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the coin for the tax.”
And they brought him a denarius. 20 And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” 22 When they heard it, they marveled. And they left him and went away.
It's too bad that obeying Jesus' command evokes such disgust in Catholics hearts. That too, is unscriptural.
Romans 13:1-7 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
You do realize who was the governing authority when Paul wrote this, don't you?
It was Nero.
>>On that topic, many things about Protestantism are wrong but what really fills a Catholic heart with disgust is its servility to civil power.<<
Might I remind you that Catholics vote for more increased laws then Protestants?
Every Sunday and every Eucharist? Over and over and over again?
Scripture for that?
It worked for the first priests BEFORE He died and rose.
Which priests? The Jewish ones?
The Eucharistic Jesus dies and rises on the Altar.
Jesus said. *It is finished*. I don't know what Jesus you're worshiping but the one in Scripture, died (past tense), rose (past tense), and is seated at the right hand of God interceding for believers (present tense).
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