Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
What Metmom, and I, for the record, contend is what you have graciously showed here:Are you reading Metmom's mind? Are you and metmom the same person with two accounts?
Well, yes. Why the quotes? The Church is also people who have their beliefs that they get from the contemporary culture. Prelates believed at some time that the earth was flat, that the sky is hard, that torture reveals a true testimony, that distance and time do not depend on the movement of the reference point, etc. But the Church never taught geography, astrophysics, criminalistics, laws of Newton... We rely on the general culture for that, and we may get things wrong.
You can’t show early “Christian” writings that deny intercession of Saints,that alone should make you realize that God wanted us to know about the Holy FAMILY in heaven and earth.
You can't show Scripture that supports praying to ANYONE but God the Father.
Jesus' own instruction to His disciples when they asked Him to teach them to pray was to pray to the FATHER.
Anywhere you look in Scripture, the entire Bible, praying to anyone or anything but God is ALWAYS associated with idolatry.
IN addition, there is no need for it. Scripture is jam packed with promises that God hears and answers our prayers HIMSELF.
He doesn't need help. He's GOD, for crying out loud. He can multitask.
He said: "take and eat; this is my body crucified for you; do this in memorial of me". That is what we do, not every Sunday but every day. I don't know how it works out that we stand at the Golgotha hill each time we "do it", but I have faith in the words of my Lord and Savior and do what He asks.
Nor did He say leave me on the cross as a visual reminder.
Nor did He say: erect crosses but pretend I was not on them. As to crucifixes, didn't we just discuss that? Galatians 3:1 shows that the recipients of the letter looked at a crucifix routinely.
Niot at all: the first step when dealing with a witch is to exorcise the demon; if it works, she is healed.
See my preceding post on this topic.
You can’t seem to grasp that a loving God shares love with others and allows them to join in that love for others.The Incarnation of our Lord and the love Mary has for us has Real meaning in the Holy family in Heaven and on Earth.
I pray for you to see this,dear sister.
Good night! I wish you a blessed evening.
I don't see any connection or contradiction. We shall fix what is wrong with the American Church, and Protestantism is by inclination religion of vandals. And I had spinach omelette for breakfast.
Yes, and I did not argue about words. The point is that angels, such as they are, are capable of delivering prayers of the saints to God, as the Holy Scripture teaches, and contrary to what you were saying at the time.
Aha, good point.
Sounds convincing.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
Methinks that perhaps you don’t realize how many of the non-Catholic FReepers you are discussing with are former Catholics, having been raised IN the Catholic church until adulthood.
So, are you saying then that since works are not necessary... IOW, that one does not have to be baptized, take communion, go to confession, do penance, go to mass every Sunday, be *in communion with the Catholic church* (whatever that specifically means as I have not yet received an answer to my questions about that), do the sacraments? Or anything else the Catholic church deems necessary to be saved?
Do you believe that a Christian can be sure of their salvation and why or why not?
So if it’s not specifically prohibited in scripture the RCC can make it a dogma? Much like the assumption of Mary?
“Protestants bear responsibility for not realizing what Catholics believe on this matter. They have not read Catholic sources themselves, or if they have then they have not read them thoroughly, else they would realize this. Instead of trying to understand the Catholic view before criticizing it, they have simply repeated malicious falsehoods concerning Catholic teaching—usually ones they heard from the pulpit or on Protestant radio—and at most have skimmed Catholic works looking for snippets to support the rumors they have heard. I know. I used to do that when I was a Protestant.”
It's not an attack to begin with. It's a statement of fact. It only sounds odd to someone who has been taught differently by the RCC.
I have never seen a Catholic get in a bigger snit than when someone states that people can be sure of their salvation. It just pushes them over the edge. And I'm talking about real life, face to face conversations. Much like the reactions here.
However it is Scriptural to the core. But Scripture does sound odd to those who don't know it.
That passage has nothing to do with the Eucharist.
boatbums is not presuming to *read my mind*. She is stating what I have said both to her and what she has seen me post on the open forum. She and I are sisters in Christ. We’ve discussed our faith and beliefs, she knows what I believe because of what I’ve told her, and we are in agreement
When she states that I believe that “we CAN know we have eternal life and we CAN know we are saved because we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.” she is speaking for me and hereby officially has my permission to do so.
I couldn’t find that phrase in Romans 13 or any other passage in scripture. Could you perhaps point it out to me?
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