Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Mary is dead.
Because we believe Jesus, is God.
Bad logic.
Since Jesus has ALWAYS been 'GOD', all Mary provided was some fleshly DNA to wrap His godhood in.
SURROGATE mother of GOD might be a bit more correct.
Been expecting somebody to do that for years, but I figured it would be “Popios.”
GREAT is Mary!!!
Celibate wife of Joseph!!!
That somehow came up with the Inquisition...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
The first recorded use of this Greek word in Christian theology (though not about the Divine Trinity) was by Theophilus of Antioch in about 170 AD. He wrote:[10][11]
"In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity [Τριάδος], of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man."[12]
Yup, fantasy is what they call our belief in Jesus. Mockery is what that bible warned us Christians about. They didn’t tell us it would be from other Christians.
You mean like you just did with James 2:24? You claim it says, "that man is “saved by works, and not by faith alone". But what does it really say? Let's look:
New International Version (1984)
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
New Living Translation (©2007)
So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.
English Standard Version (©2001)
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
International Standard Version (©2012)
You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
You see that by works a man is justified and not from faith alone.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
You see that a person receives God's approval because of what he does, not only because of what he believes.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
American King James Version
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
American Standard Version
Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
Darby Bible Translation
Ye see that a man is justified on the principle of works, and not on the principle of faith only.
English Revised Version
Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.
Webster's Bible Translation
Ye see then that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Weymouth New Testament
You all see that it is because of actions that a man is pronounced righteous, and not simply because of faith.
World English Bible
You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.
Young's Literal Translation
Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only;
That verse, read in context with the rest of the chapter, shows that James is speaking of a faith that is demonstrated in a person's actions/works. If he was really stating that works makes one righteous before God, then he would be contradicting other clear Scriptures that say man is NOT justified by works in the sight of God. It is by God's grace that we are saved and it is through faith IN that grace of Christ dying for our sins that saves us and makes us righteous before God. Paul says in Titus 3:4-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
You were correct when you said God does not contradict himself and that is why we can trust what the Bible says about our salvation. If we are saved by grace, then it is not by works, because grace would not be grace - grace means "unmerited", "unearned" and "undeserved". The place of good works in a believer's life is to demonstrate the life-altering new birth and the indwelling Holy Spirit within a believer's heart. It is OUTSIDE proof to the world that we are God's (whereas God sees our heart and knows if we have faith or not). We probably all know people who are "good" and "kind" and who do good works, but we cannot see their hearts so that is why we cannot judge what is within another's heart. All we can do is look at the outside evidence and anyone who claims to be a Christian should demonstrate that to the world through a changed life. But, it is NOT the good works that saves us - only by the grace of God through faith can do that.
You were mentioned: kinda...
You rang? :-)
LOL!
“”Those verses from Timothy you posted have a lot added to them that is not in the original Greek””
Not true,dear sister,because all that matters is the correct INTERPRETATION of Scripture by the EARLY Christians though the ages.These interpretations were upheld through the ages and were guided by the Holy Spirit and became dogma to back it up.
You can’t show early “Christian” writings that deny intercession of Saints,that alone should make you realize that God wanted us to know about the Holy FAMILY in heaven and earth. Heaven and earth is a place where we contribute in UNION with Christ through love for others to bring prayer to Him and ask for His Grace to help others.
Our Lord came in a human nature to show us we contribute though sacrifice and prayer, I’m saddened that you can’t recognize this!
[T]hat it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples! The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps.” Martyrdom of Polycarp 17,18 (A.D. 157).
We believe that when you love God, "works" are an obvious symptom of that love..
protestants can explain it to other Protestants best because they understand you persepective. I definitly don't.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/JAMES2.HTM.
"Protestants bear responsibility for not realizing what Catholics believe on this matter. They have not read Catholic sources themselves, or if they have then they have not read them thoroughly, else they would realize this. Instead of trying to understand the Catholic view before criticizing it, they have simply repeated malicious falsehoods concerning Catholic teaching—usually ones they heard from the pulpit or on Protestant radio—and at most have skimmed Catholic works looking for snippets to support the rumors they have heard. I know. I used to do that when I was a Protestant."
Agreed...They reject far too much scripture to be taken seriously about anything Christian...
And since none of them here responds to scripture that is posted to them, I'm sure they don't even waste their time looking at the scripture that was posted...They have no interest in the words of God...
What Metmom, and I, for the record, contend is what you have graciously showed here:
2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.
That is the ENTIRE point that this one piece, when added the rest of what the Catholic church teaches, demonstrates the contradiction between what Scripture clearly teaches and where the Catholic church veered away from that truth. There is no distinction in Scripture between what you call "initial" grace at the origin of conversion and the grace of God that redeems us from ALL penalty of our sins. It is the grace of God ALONE that made propitiation for sins - not for ours only but for ALL mankind. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL sin and by HIS blood we have been made righteous, sanctified and justified. God us eternal life when we receive this grace by faith. We believe on Him whom God sent - Jesus Christ, God incarnate - and this faith is sufficient for God to save us for He alone sees our hearts.
Just as the above excerpt from the Catechism states, Catholicism perverts the true Gospel and was why I recognized that as soon as I read John 10:27-30. The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth that I could HAVE everlasting life and that it is a gift - unearned and unmerited. Metmom has not made an odd attack at all, she is stating what she and I and millions of other former Catholics have grasped - we CAN know we have eternal life and we CAN know we are saved because we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Good question. At this point we are not; however Catholic teaching is that capital punishment is appropriate when the conviction is sure and there is no other secure way to prevent future crime. We believe that in the modern justice system there are ways to isolate criminals who cannot be rehabilitated for life; and, on the other hand, there are serious doubts in the precision of convictions (innocents now and then get on the death row). Therefore today we are against capital punishment in developed countries. But it is what we call prudential judgment, which takes into account concrete circumstance. There is no Catholic case against capital punishment in principle. Contrast that with our view on abortion or homosexual "marriage": these are wrong intrinsically and not merely prudentially.
Where do you read that? He asked him for his name.
I know the word *trinity* is not found in Scripture.
The Trinity is, which is why it is believed.
All someone did some hundreds of years ago is slap a label on a concept that people understood. That is no great credit to anyone.
Giving the concept a name is no feat of genius.
Yes. That is the miracle of the Eucharist as well: He is at the right hand of the Father and in the communion plate, and in every Church celebrating at that time as well. The miracle of loaves and fishes was there to prepare the disciples for that.
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