Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
The Catholic church teaches salvation by works.Wrong. Badly wrong. If you are going to tell people what the Church teaches, you might want to actually have knowledge of those teachings.
metmom wrote:
The death of Jesus on the cross is not enough. *It is finished* is not enough.A confused and convoluted statement. Are you claiming everyone is saved? Just very odd.
The Catholic church teaches salvation by works.Wrong. Badly wrong. If you are going to tell people what the Church teaches, you might want to actually have knowledge of those teachings.
metmom wrote:
The death of Jesus on the cross is not enough. *It is finished* is not enough.A confused and convoluted statement. Are you claiming everyone is saved? Just very odd.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
>> and not be so concerned with mine<<
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
No I would not, but the number of wayward, lapsed and poorly catechized Catholics is not insignificant.
Peace be to you.
OK, so then people don't have to be in communion with, or agree with the Catholic church to be saved?
Then any Catholic can have assurance of their salvation?
A confused and convoluted statement. Are you claiming everyone is saved? Just very odd.
Salvation isn't forced on anyone but is available to all.
John 1:12-13 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
I just LOVE a challenge!
Toss one at me and let me try; ok??
Where is the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, and the Resurrection in that verse? One cannot look at a single passage and extract a comprehensive doctrine from it. One has to look at the Bible as a whole.
That said, we are not going to solve or shout each other down on whether the reference to "church" means the one holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church established in Matthew 16 and affirmed by the Early Church Fathers at Nicene or any Sunday lay about who claims to be Christian because they can recite a few verses of Scripture.
Peace be with you.
Where is the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, and the Resurrection in that verse? One cannot look at a single passage and extract a comprehensive doctrine from it. One has to look at the Bible as a whole.
That said, we are not going to solve or shout each other down on whether the reference to "church" means the one holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church established in Matthew 16 and affirmed by the Early Church Fathers at Nicene or any Sunday lay about who claims to be Christian because they can recite a few verses of Scripture.
Peace be with you.
I'm sure, if Rome wanted to; it could find a bunch of early pope writings, a few 'visitations', a lot of dis-jointed scripture; and SURELY come up with SOMETHING!
Believers make up the body of Christ. When they assemble together, Christ says He is there in their midst.
http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/1-2.htm
English = church. Greek = ekklesia
http://biblesuite.com/greek/1577.htm
1577 ekklēsía(from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom. [The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical."]
No one denomination is the *church* or is the body of Christ. Individual members make it up.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you (Corinthian believers) are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
John 1:12-13 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.All Baptized Catholics fit that description. Are we saved, in your odd opinion?
http://www.millennialstar.org/southern-baptist-convention-is-a-cult/
It's not right, but you are also under attack. There are long lists of religious cults, and none of them are Catholic.
Catholics are imperfect, but none of us are. Attack the Catholic church to your own detriment. It hurts all Christians, but it hurts you more.You reap what you sow.
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Yes. Is there a question implied by this?
further down: The RCC is a worldly organization.
The Holy Church -- among other things -- an organization of people with institutional rules, expectations of privacy, etc.
Remember that when anyone tells you their man made teachings are from God.
Indeed. All that Protestant stuff is either a human invention, or taken from the Catholic Church.
Fatima is approved. I don’t know if it is disclosed entirely, but it is not a teaching of the Church anyway. People are free to venerate it and hold it to be true, and they are free to do otherwise. I believe it to be a true revelation of Our Lady, but it just my opinion.
I remind you that I ignore empty sloganeering like that and will not acknowledge such posts, — which you make often, — in the sequel. I do read them and those that have substance I will answer.
The Holy Inquisition does not deal with non-Catholics. History is taking care of you.
Waiting to see you smacked down
You think this is like wrestling on TV?
Dear NL, I think you needed to read the rest of what Annalex wrote in context, where he also wrote... “and soon they will be a dark historical memory in Christendom, just like the iconoclast have become.”
We reject protestantism, but we love protestants as our separated brothers and sisters. Perhaps we need to remember to be more careful to remember that protestantism is the error, and not the invincibly ignorant who have been influenced by errors of men from the early heretics such as Nestorius,Valentinius, and the modern ones such as Calvin .
I did not use the word "omnipresent" precisely for that reason: it suggest a divine attribute. CynicalBear did, either ignorantly or provocatively. I agree with what you said, although you are splitting hairs about "not bound by space and time" but not "omnipresent".
There's no picture of a throne there. Just the inside of a Catholic church.
What you see is the Altar and the Tabernacle. That is the Throne of God because that is where Christ is, in real presence. I am sorry if my Catholic allusions are lost on you.
True believers don't need to go somewhere to *meet* God
Now that is an idiotic statement. So when Christ comes and your neighbor calls to say "He is in the town square talking to people" you response will be "Sorry, I am a true believer, I don't need to go anywhere?"
Christ is everywhere at once, true, but He is present in the body on every Catholic Altar when Mass is offered to God. We go to meet Him. We also pray to Him in our homes and everywhere else, -- one thing does not exclude the other.
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