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Crossing the Jordan into the Inner Meaning [New Church, Open]
Spirit and Life Bible Study ^ | Wed Nov 28, 2012 | Rev Dr Johnathon Rose

Posted on 11/29/2012 2:55:12 PM PST by DaveMSmith

Everything in the Old Testament history leads up to the crossing of the Jordan, and yet the way the story is told in Joshua 3 and 4 has major inconsistencies and problems. Is there another way to read it?

Can the Bible be taken literally?


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: cults; metaphysics; newchurch; swedenborg
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To: metmom
Over books in the Bible that the RCC didn't even agree on until the 1400's? That's not exactly a *huge* roadblock. Heck, it's not even a roadblock. Especially since the Catholic church doesn't consider Scripture, but rather itself, as authoritative.

I wonder what it is in these "other" books that some Catholics think excluding them from the other books EVERYONE agrees are Divinely-inspired presents this "roadblock" between themselves and the grace Christ wants to pour out on them? I think the REAL point is not at all that they really care about these extra books but that they can pull their "Luther card" to try to make ALL non-Catholics out to be missing a "fuller" faith that they alone think they have as well as "their" church having the only authority TO decide what is and is not Scripture.

I'll bet if you asked one to tell you what deep theological truth is contained in these books that are not also found in the mutually acknowledged ones, no one could name even one thing. The ONLY one I have ever heard attempted is the idea of "Purgatory" possibly being discussed in the book of Maccabees, but even that one is questionable because it never uses the word (nor is it found in any others) and it speaks of idolaters being prayed for - hardly jiving with Purgatory being a place to cleanse "venal" sins. Pretty sure worshiping false gods is a "mortal" no-no.

61 posted on 11/30/2012 10:45:32 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Those who continue to play the "Luther card" to assert "their" church is alone the arbiter of what IS Sacred Scripture, will probably not care to know the truth."

LOL, ROTFL, it's getting funnier and funnier.

The truth is that Luther removed books from the Bible. Books that Christ and the Apostles never said were in error, books that had been accepted as inspired Scripture since before Christ was born, books accepted as part of the Christian Scripture at least since Vulgate was complete, books that directly contradict what Luther preached as being the truth.

The only people hiding from the truth are the people who claim that Luther knew more about what should be included in the Bible than Christ Himself who is, in fact, The Word. That someone would even argue Luther throwing out portions of the Bible is meaningless proves that such folks are under a strong delusion.

Those who only accept the Luther Subset of Scripture are also only accepting a subset of Christ and in doing so placing their intellect on par with Christ. That's not faith, that's not being led by the Holy Spirit, that's not surrendering to Christ and following Him, that's following your own agenda exactly the same way Eve did.

62 posted on 11/30/2012 11:50:25 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
LOL, ROTFL, it's getting funnier and funnier.

You can yuk it up all night, or read the link I gave that proves Luther did NOT remove ANY books from the Bible. Here is the link again:

http://tquid.sharpens.org/Luther_%20canon.htm#a2

Read it and then still tell me Luther removed books from the Bible.

63 posted on 11/30/2012 11:56:56 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Yes, Luther removed books from the Bible and whatever bogus road apples someone spreads saying differently are just crutches for those who refuse to surrender to Christ but want to still pretend they’re Christian.


64 posted on 11/30/2012 11:59:09 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: boatbums
Some have it in their heads that present day King James and related bibles are dependent upon Luther for their list of books. It's childish


65 posted on 12/01/2012 12:02:21 AM PST by BlueDragon (in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity)
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To: Rashputin
Yes, Luther removed books from the Bible and whatever bogus road apples someone spreads saying differently are just crutches for those who refuse to surrender to Christ but want to still pretend they’re Christian.

Where is your source that proves your contention? Did you even BOTHER to read the one I gave? If not, what are you afraid of? And, for the last time, NO ONE follows Martin Luther. He was a fallible man who lived during a turbulent time in Christian history. He translated the ENTIRE Bible into the common German language and not one book was omitted from it.

66 posted on 12/01/2012 12:08:26 AM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: BlueDragon
No, Luther denied that those books were equal to the rest of the Old Testament and wanted them removed. Instead, they remained with the others as and Appendix. The King James even included them until someone realized that they were printing Bibles with more pages than they need to because Protestants didn't accept those books as inspired Scripture. The portions of the New Testament he wanted removed remained with the rest of the New Testament and were not flagged as not being the inspired Word of God by anyone other than Luther in his own translation. They were not removed while the books of the Old Testament he disagreed with most certainly were.

What Luther disagreed with was separated from and the balance of the Old Testament and clearly delimited as not being a portion of the inspired works in the Bible. When publishers decided to increase their profit margins by printing Bibles without those books even as an Appendix doesn’t make any difference.

From Luther onward those books Luther disagreed with were clearly marked as not being inspired and as not being part of the Bible. Whether they were bound with many versions as an Appendix or not doesn't change anything. There may be a few dolts around who pretend that denying and teaching books aren't inspired and not part of the Bible isn't the same thing as removing them from the Bible, but such folks are just desperate for an excuse or they're a whole burger short of a Happy Meal.

67 posted on 12/01/2012 12:25:33 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
It was not Luther who first noted the Apocrypha as less than inspired. Jerome didn't either, among others.

but if it otherwise be a hobby-horse for some...by all means, ride it off into the sunset.

68 posted on 12/01/2012 12:44:04 AM PST by BlueDragon (in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity)
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To: Salvation
Also don’t forget that Luther added words to the Bible — such as the word “alone” in faith alone when previously it only said faith.

My car owner's manual said, "To start; turn key clockwise."

They recalled it and changed the wording; "To start; only turn key clockwise."


 

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


1 John 3:21-24

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


69 posted on 12/01/2012 1:27:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: trebb
...else, why some 30,000+ sects of Christianity that all claim the same Bible?

No problem; as Christianity has been 'restored'.

NOW there is only ONE correct church.


(So I've been told... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement )

70 posted on 12/01/2012 1:29:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Biggirl
But sadly, when Christians fight each other, it only just provides more ammo for the non-believing folks who want to attack Christians.

Sadly; some Christians do not like it when other Christians try to combat false teachings.


 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



71 posted on 12/01/2012 1:31:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Springfield Reformer
We all make mistakes, and then we justify them.

I never miss a bullseye when shooting.

I shoot, then draw a circle around wherever the hole is.

72 posted on 12/01/2012 1:34:35 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ArrogantBustard
A word of advise: Don't go prattling on about what other folks claim, particularly when you don't get it right. It just makes you look foolish.

I just HATE it when others claim someone else is WRONG; and then NEVER have any data to back up THEIR claim!

73 posted on 12/01/2012 1:36:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Rashputin
The need for a single infallible magisterium is due to the fact that Christ established that single infallible magisterium.


 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
   and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
NIV Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
NIV Romans 9:33
  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
NIV Numbers 20:8
   "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
   Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
NIV Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
NIV Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
NIV Psalms 19:14
   May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 28:1
   To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
NIV Psalms 42:9
   I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
NIV Psalms 62:2
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:6
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:7
   My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
NIV Psalms 71:3
   Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
NIV Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 89:26
   He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
NIV Psalms 95:1
   Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
NIV Psalms 144:1
   Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
NIV Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
NIV Isaiah 26:4
   Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
NIV Isaiah 30:29
 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
NIV Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
NIV Habakkuk 1:12
   O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!


74 posted on 12/01/2012 1:37:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

First, whether Christ mentioned something or not is not a determinative basis as to what should be in the canon, as this “red letter” hermeneutic (which homosexuals also use) would also exclude many canonical books He did not quote from, while in principal it would sanction the inclusion of books which Rome herself rejects, as the Spirit of Christ mentions things from books not found in her (or our) canon.


Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS??      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

75 posted on 12/01/2012 1:41:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I’ve long known the Biblical position, but thanks so much for giving me your personal interpretation of those portions of Scripture you choose to accept at the moment.


76 posted on 12/01/2012 1:42:36 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
More often than not, however, those who cannot accept the entire Bible rather than only the Luther Subset end up modifying Scripture to suit their own desires and therefore worship their own, Most High and Holy Self rather than Christ.

It appears that we ALL are ignoring the elephant in the room: namely the THROWN OUT BOOKS.

So; I ask one and all, "Just what important theological concepts are contained in those missing pieces and what are the ramifications for NOT having them?"

77 posted on 12/01/2012 1:45:02 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Rashputin
I’ve long known the Biblical position, but thanks so much for giving me your personal interpretation of those portions of Scripture you choose to accept at the moment.

Oh?

Just WHAT did I 'interpret'?

78 posted on 12/01/2012 1:50:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Communion of the Saints is clear

Purgatory is clear

just off the top of my head, and several prophecies of Christ are very clear, there are other doctrines clarified and clearly mentioned but I feel sure those who don't accept the entire Bible will just dismiss those things as unimportant.

Of course, they're not, if for other reason than a great many lies about what the Catholic Church teaches are based on claiming that those two doctrines and others were fabricated and not based on Scripture.

The fact that Catholic doctrines are based on Scripture is something a good many folks refuse to believe and they're aided in their attacks on the Catholic Church by their denial that those books are an inspired portion of the Bible. Given the fact that a great many people accept the doctrine of Scripture Alone, it's always interesting to me to see people argue that tossing out a portion of Scripture, even if it were all poetry, makes no difference.

have a nice day

79 posted on 12/01/2012 1:55:48 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Elsie
The comment about Peter as if he didn't know the name Christ gave him or could only relate to earlier references to the word Rock.

Or, did I miss you trying to show that Christ was using the only Aramaic word for Rock when he said both to and of Peter that He would build His Church on this Rock?

80 posted on 12/01/2012 1:59:54 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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