That is QUITE a revelation!
When may we stop by your home to more fully explain the Restored Gospel© to you and your loving family?
Posted on 11/28/2012 6:00:38 PM PST by Colofornian
http://www.lds.org/church/news/mormonor ... c?lang=eng
How about being straight up and saying that Mormons put on costumes and chant rituals in secret buildings that only 10% of gross earnings paid as "tithes" allow entrance?
Mormonism wants people to think they are normal that they are just Christians like everyone else. Each year they get rid of more and more of their embarrassing doctrines - or doctrines that aren't politically correct anymore. Apologist attack dogs fight any critics on technicalities.
Mormonism has one thing that works for them - and that is the funneling of cash from members to the Cult coffers. This is done through mandatory tithe. And in order to make this tithe work - and make the member believe in the Cult enough to pay - they have to have the secret temple ceremonies. You have to put a ton of make believe in there.
Stephen R. Donaldson is one of my favorite authors. In one of his series of books he explained how a great and noble group of leaders were slowly corrupted through the centuries by simple infiltration of ideas. The ideas changed the group slowly until they went from helping people to human sacrifices. The new leaders of the group knew what was going on - but they surrounded themselves with those who only had faith - not knowledge. Those who had faith were much stronger because they were driven by the new cult. Those who held faith were much easier to control.
Pondering the story Donaldson had written I saw the same manifested in the Cult of Mormonism. If you have members who are so convinced you are the one and only true Cult, they will not hesitate to open their pocketbooks and hand over everything. Mormonism needs this kind of special, secret, garment wearing, new name, pay lay ale - in order to keep the tithes flowing. If the cat is out of the bag, the tithing will stop.
So the reality is there is a certain point where Mormonism must stop moving towards Christianity - it has to because money is ultimately the top priority of the Cult. Money - Power - Control.
Look at all the recovery boards right now - even the NOM boards. What is the #1 topic right now because of upcoming December? Tithing. Tithing. Tithing. Oh and don't forget tithing. Sign up for tithing settlement. And don't forget to sign up for tithing settlement.
“All of our messaging is focused on helping people understand that Mormons are Christian,”
Naw, Mormonism isn't a Christian church. It's a secretive Cult with very cultish practices and it has to stay that way - or go broke.
“If I may be so bold, this is why we need a modern day prophet and more revelation, the Bible does not tell us everything.”
The Bible doesn’t need to tell us everything, nor do we need a prophet to answer any conceivable question that we might have. Many things are simply sealed up and we are not meant to know them until the appointed time. If I needed another prophet, I’d expect the Bible to mention that, but instead the New Testament always advises us to look to scripture, or to God through prayer, for our answers, not to a prophet, or any other men for that matter.
“I personally vehemently disagree with that interpretation and hope that I am not being disagreeable when I point out that to me the God of all who knows all and knows he will die and be resurrected is not going to be reduced to a quivering pile of mush that bleeds from every pore because he’s afraid.”
I think that you are looking at it kind of backwards. The important thing is not that Jesus may have experienced a moment of doubt, or fear, but that Jesus overcame. All Christians will encounter the same type of moments, and we are expected to follow Christ’s example, and overcome them as well. We can look to Jesus, and know that what he overcame was much greater than the obstacles placed before us, and take comfort that through Him, we will not fail.
“Interesting point, but I never saw Jesus as a wimp. I have faced death, and even a fate I deemed worse than Death, I did not bleed at every pore.”
Well, Jesus wasn’t a wimp, but He was a man, not simply a semblance of a man. Every man has limitations, even if, in Jesus’ case, they were self-imposed. Also, no matter what you or I may have faced, we can’t presume to compare that, or our reactions, to what Christ faced. We can take up our cross, and follow Him, but we aren’t in a position to know what it was really like for Him to carry His cross.
“We don’t give the option of Death...”
Now, that right there was some funny... bumper sticker worthy even!
Here’s another one:
A Mormon left a note on my door the other day. It read: “Sorry that we missed you, but don’t worry, we’ll be back for you, in this life or the next!”
“Jesus does not come into the picture until the final judgement”
Hey! There’s something you and I can agree on that a lot of Catholics and Protestants can grumble over with both of us. Woohoo!
“When men are judged out of the book of life according to their works. (It’s in the bible, don’t get mad at me)”
Yes, that’s in there, but that’s the second resurrection, so you’re skipping ahead a bit. The second resurrection is for those who are not raised in the first resurrection, so it is only for the non-saved. Christians won’t be judged based on their works, with their salvation dependent upon them. Christians are pardoned because they are washed clean in the blood of the Lamb, and their works are simply measured to see what their station in the Kingdom of God will be.
“As for the Ordinances for the dead, if we’re wrong, then who cares!”
Yes, I agree, who cares? I think it’s goofy and unbiblical, but it wouldn’t do me any harm if it was performed for me, so why should it bother me? Getting mad about that would seem to me like an atheist getting mad when Christians say that we’ll pray for them.
S “My experience with mormonISM goes back to 1962 and I can tell you for certainty it is false.”
And I should take your word over Gods because...
S “What you feel in your bosom is not from God Almighty.”
Some times it is, and some times it’s pepperoni pizza, luckily, I am not just relying on a feeling, my witness from God was very specific and very clear.
S “Joesph Smith was a liar, a pedophile a con man, a liar, a supporter of treason, and adulator....among other crimes.”
You sound like an Obama ad about Mitt...
S “If you choose to follow his “revelations” it is on you but do not compare what this hideous man says to God Almighty - it is disgusting and blasphemy.”
You know, today, people seem to think God picks men who are unimpeachable as prophets.
Moses was a former prince of Egypt who owned slaves, killed a man in anger, became a fugative, married a descendant of Ishmael, was a polygamist, took credit for a miracle and was kept from the promised land as punishment. Hosea’s wife was a prostitute, Jonah ran away when called, repented, went preached repentance or destruction then was mad when the people repented, Eli let his son’s rule his household and pervert the ways of God to the point that they took the Ark out into battle with out being instructed to and lost it, but his word was honored to Samuel’s mother!
Prophets are not perfect men. there was only one perfect man, Jesus.
IMHO, Joseph Smith was uneducated, a braggart, bold, brash, impatient, and had poor judgement in many things, he was quick to take action before planning, but I cannot deny that he was a prophet of God.
S “Following JS to mythical godhood, it is your choice, but be aware it is not of God. Even demons know the Word of God.......it doesn’t make them Saved.”
I am not following Joseph but direction from God.
First John 4:1-3 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_jn/4/1-3#1 Says:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The response to my prayer was specific, and contained not only a testimony of the Book of Mormon, but a testimony that the Book of Mormon is the second testament of Jesus Christ and that Jesus was my Lord and Savior.
The Bible tells me that God answers prayers.
The Bible tells me my answer Came from God. (Satan can’t/won’t testify of Jesus)
The Book of Mormon and the Bible agree as much as possible (the Bible is self contradictory on some points) and where they don’t agree, the Book of Mormon is correct because God said so.
Prayer, it could save your eternal life, know how to use it!
Delph
D “Well, first of all, some here will get mad at me for stating the obvious, but the Bible is not all the inspired writings the Apostles had at there disposal, it references books of scripture which the bible does not contain.”
B “Yes, certainly it does. However, none of those books are the Gospel, which is what we are talking about. Furthermore, the Bible clearly tells us that the Gospel is all we need to hear for salvation’s sake, so let’s not get sidetracked with what stories and wisdom we might be missing out on from Enoch, or Jubilees. I’ve read those books mentioned which are still available (or the books we have which purport to be them, since some maybe pseudoepigraphical). They are good reading, and I’d recommend any Christian who is interested to check them out, but only after they had read the Gospel, and at least a good bit of the rest of the Bible, since that is where all the really important stuff is.”
IMHO, all the words of God are important
D “Third, In the Book of Ezekiel 37:15-19 it speaks of a book from the Jews (the Bible) and a book from the tribe of Joseph (the Book of Mormon):”
B “When Judah and Joseph are used in combination in the Bible, or any number of variations of that phrasing, it refers always to the tribes of Judah and the tribes of Israel, of which Joseph was the chief, which were divided into two kingdoms. Obviously the prophecy you cite is speaking of the rejoining of these divided tribes of God’s people, not anything to do with the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The usage of the stick as a metaphor also reinforces this, since a stick never represents a book in Biblical prophecy, but sticks, branches, trees, and plants are often used to represent people or groups of people in the Bible.”
Obviously... my interpretation differs, surprise! Just don’t say I have nothing to base it on, for I do.
Not gonna argue your interpretation, I also believe the Bible to be constructed so that multiple interpretations of the same scriptures are all correct, which is not to say that all interpretations are, but some times multiples are.
B “Yes, and he actually provided us with four independent witnesses in the four evangelists, so there could be no question that this was fulfilled. If that is not enough, he provided us with additional testimony from Paul and other apostles besides. I hardly see how the Book of Mormon is required after that point.”
Not up to you, God does things his way, and as you pointed out earlier, he sets things up so no one can credibly say He didn’t do it right (like not being fully man)
B “There is no prohibition about writing books, in fact the Bible commands all of us to witness. So any apostle or disciple alive at the time of that statement would still have been bound to tell their testimony, which would be a form of the Gospel. In fact, any time a Christian gives their own testimony of Christ, they are composing a form of Gospel themselves, in telling the good news in their own words. However, that doesn’t mean they are creating “another gospel”, separate from, and different than the Gospel which has been delivered to all Christians by God. The prohibition is against a different Gospel, which the Book of Mormon clearly is, since it is not in agreement with any of the other Gospels.”
Have you read and studied the Book of Mormon as I have? It is in agreement, in so far as it can be.
To illustrate, how exactly did Judas die? They all say he Died, but in different ways. It is impossible to agree with the bible on this point because you can agree with one, but not all the scriptures.
B “I suppose you could argue they forgot to name what, if your assertion is true, would be the most successful heresy, or perhaps the victorious Trinitarians edited the parts out of the Bible that specifically condemned them. However, that just goes back to dismissing the Bible as the Word of God, and being left with no sure footing to stand on when claiming that your prophet has the real Word of God.”
They did better than editing, the just didn’t include books that made it clear they were wrong in the Bible.
B “This whole idea that important parts of the Bible have been corrupted doesn’t even stand the test of reason, since the author of the Bible is God. You’re basically saying, without saying it explicitly, that God thought His message was important enough to deliver to man through chosen messengers over the ages, but then too lazy or incompetent to make sure that message wasn’t lost, mangled, and perverted by men. The Holy Spirit, in that scenario, would have to be asleep at the wheel, and of course when you think about it that way, the very notion is ludicrous and impossible if you believe in an almighty God.”
ere is the piece you are missing on that logic, God gave man Agency. God cannot interfere with Agency or he would break his word (and cease to be God) so he gave man his truth, and man beign imperfect corrupted it. But God knwe it would be corrupted, so he set up a way in the future for the truth to be restored.
God gets to assume the consequent :-)
B “There is a great passage in the Old Testament that I love, the story of King Josiah and the Book of the Law. Josiah ruled Judah during a period of decadence and idolatry, when they had forgotten the law and tossed away the Word of God. The King himself had never even read the books of Moses, until they found the copy that Moses sealed in the Ark of the Covenant, centuries earlier.”
Yup, he was prophesied about , and Josiah was a prophet as well as a king. see http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/1-kgs/13.1-3?lang=eng
B “That is the closest story in the entire Bible to a “restoration of the Gospel”, and what does it show us instead? God did not send a prophet to rewrite the Word of God, but instead he miraculously, through his own power and foresight, preserved the original books of Moses in their entirety and perfection, to deliver to Israel and remind them of their sins. Yet, you would have me believe that this same God allowed the Romans or whoever to butcher the testament that He sent his Son to deliver to us? Not my God, nosirree!”
Joseph did not rewrite the word of God, but miraculously through his power and foresight preserved the Book of Moroni in it’s entirety and perfection to deliver us from the evils of this day.
Or maybe Muhammad was made necessary, or Ellen G. White, or David Koresh. None of them have any more or less claim to the title than Joseph Smith, as far as I can tell. Well, maybe Koresh, since he tried to raise the dead and failed, so he pretty much blew it. The point is, anyone can come along and say “The Bible’s wrong, but God told me how to fix it”. None of them are named in the Bible, none of them were recognized as an Apostle by the other Apostles, which would be necessary to claim that authority, and none of them can perform any miracles, even though the Bible tells us that is not to be regarded as proof. It’s the word of a man, or other men testifying on behalf of that men, and that is all there is to support their claim, and all there will ever be.
God did not testify of their works, he did testify of the Book of Mormon.
B “The authority of the Word of God! When I ask you what recourse you have, when answering the claims of others who also claim to restore a corrupted gospel, I don’t mean to ask why you believe the Book of Mormon. I mean, to what can you appeal to prove to anyone that Smith’s claim is any more convincing than any of the other, pretty much countless, similar claims that have been made by others?”
Boogieman, The Bible can and will yet be twisted by men, you can’t stop it, and neither can I. I can pray and God can and will tell me what to believe and with him I cannot be deceived by man.
B “Now, my recourse is the Bible. I don’t have to tell anyone to read the Bible and pray about it to seek an answer, all I have to do is tell people to read the Bible, and, to the best of my ability, help explain it to them if they don’t understand something. The Bible is a sound, logical, self-proving document, one doesn’t need a confirmation in the spirit for one to know it is true.”
I’m happy that you think the bible is a complete work and that you can see nothing ore you need to do. I will not educate you in things that will make you sad.
B “Furthermore, the Bible is literally a living document, since the Bible is the Word and the Word is Christ, and Christ is the living God. Once you crack open the Bible, Christ is knocking at the door, you do not have to pray and ask for anything. The Word has the power to convict you in your conscience and humble you before God, simply by reading it. Most will flee from it, their consciences seared, but God’s sheep will hear His voice, because He calls out to them, He doesn’t wait for them to call out to Him.”
The Bible says to pray... so, IMHO you need to pray about it, not just read it.
B “You see, this is the difference I am talking about. God doesn’t tell just a few men that His Word is true, He tells all men.”
Yes, but he tells men in ways they can understand if they care to listen.
B “We can choose to listen, or we can choose to try to ignore him and do as we please.”
This eternal truth is Given that God will force no man to heaven - line from a hymn..
B “When I first read the Bible, I did not pray to God to ask if it was true, because I already knew in my heart what the answer would be, but I was struggling NOT to believe it. I strived against God and tried my utmost to ignore Him, but the power of His Word called me back again and again until I was subdued and humbled, and then I prayed for forgiveness.”
B “If I had instead read the Book of Mormon, I wouldn’t have prayed to ask if was true either, because I wouldn’t have wanted to believe. I’m blessed that God doesn’t take chances like that, depending on us asking for a sign from Him, and then deigning to bless only a few with the correct answer, otherwise I probably still be an atheist!”
There are many who don’t have to pray to recognize the word of God. I am glad you came to a knowledge of Jesus as your savior.
I do have to ask, if you found there was more to the Bible that had been translated form the dead sea scrolls, would you read it?
Delph
is false citation of that "rule" or guideline, for reason that Colofornian was not attempting to read your mind or attribute motive, but was speaking of what he "took away from reading". That could mean the overall understanding he obtained, and it could if he chose, even include himself reading J. Fielding Smith's mind, since he is not conversing with J.F.S. here directly, but with you.
More accurately, if one opposes a creed, then that is what one would be "anti-" of, without being necessarily overall against or anti, all the rest (of that faith/theology).
A good example of this truth is contained in your own [above] statement, for Roman Catholics today, as all other "Catholics" that can be known of, oppose the selling of indulgences THEMSELVES. Some always did.
One can be against the antics of the Fred Phelps & family, without being "anti-Baptist". I'm "anti" Phelps, but not against all things Baptist. I could refer you to at least one Baptist here, whom I am certain would most readily agree. Should I ping that soul?
Now this "clan" business...how did that arise? Isn't it Mormons who have those "Family is Forever" bumper stickers (hinting about existing in the afterlife not only as "gods" but as family, man & wife, etc.)?
...but if you were referring to Klan as in KKK, though I do not know how many assorted Baptists were among them in it's hey-day, it's safe to say many if not the overwhelming majority of Baptists today, are anti-KKK. As to past times (civil rights era) we do know that not only was Martin Luther King, JR a Republican, but he was also a highly influential Southern Baptist. Possibly even a prophetic one...helping finish the work started by William Wilberforce and others (including some Roman Catholics). Neither Wilberforce or MLK jr claimed to be reforming Christianity, as much as they were drawing from it's existing wellspring of power, doing a work that still resonates and reverberates, in the world today.
Show me what the Mormon Church has done that is a greater.
DU is just warming up.
In the Book of Ezekiel 37:15-19 it speaks of a book from the Jews (the Bible) and a book from the tribe of Joseph (the Book of Mormon):
Oh?
I'll bet that Penn and Teller can't even find any 'book' in the text you've quoted!
Why do you think normal folks can?
Continuing on to verse 26:
Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
I seem to recall anOTHER 'everlasting covenant' that the god you worship made in D&C 132.
Can you explain just WHY the vast majority of 'mormons' fail to obey it?
And just WHY that your #2 Prophet has said you'll be DAMNED if you don't?
Good; now let our FR mormons know how you feel.
They AVOID those words like Drac does a vial of Holy Water in the sunlight!
And, as history PROVES - inaccurate!
Thus the MANY changes made to it over the years; right D?
Oh?
What EVIDENCE do you have to indicate that I am 'fooled' as you seem to think?
("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
That is QUITE a revelation!
When may we stop by your home to more fully explain the Restored Gospel© to you and your loving family?
Good!
Since you've posted THIS; you are able to explain just why you are continuing to avoid handling #18; right Delf?
Thank GOD you obeyed #54 during that time!!
Jesus Christ is God’s Son, spiritually and physically.
He calls Him Father, He prays to Him.
We are to pray to Him, God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, His Son.
God’s voice was heard at Christ’s baptism, coming from Heaven while He was in the water. The Holy Sirit also descended. Three seperate entities/Gods.Santorum endorses one-time rival Romney
And you SLC 'mormons' are not TRUE MORMONs, because you ignore the warning words of your 2nd Prophet: Brigham Young.
You are all bound up in the Spirit of Apostacy and your eventual damnation is looming on the horizon.
TRq #4:
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
I like that comparison!
I think it's also like housebreaking a puppy; Their nose gets rubbed in it!
BR>
Here WORLD: smell the crap of MORMONism.
Stinks; don't it!
(Remember: if you snip stuff from LDS.org; take off the idiotic REFERENCES that seem to infest every tenth word or so...)
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