Posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:09 AM PST by Colofornian
Yes, but it’s hard to inform someone who is mad.
Except to the Mormons whether they want to admit it or not Barak Obama is a Mormon...
In June 2008 and a couple of times after Stanley Ann Dunham, happy atheist, and the mother of Barak Hussein Obama AKA etc, was deaddunked AKA ncro baptism AKA baptism of the dead in a Mormon temple or 2 or 3...in proxy
This made the dead mother of then Democrat candidate for the office of president of the United States a MORMON...
Then the freshly minted or tinted or wet Mormon was temple married to her dead lover and the biological father of Barak Obama, thus eliminating his previously illegitimate status and making him ‘worthy’ for the priesthood of the Mormon male dominion...
After Stanley Ann Obama nee Dunham (due to her temple wedding) received all the possible Earthly lineup of endowments and anointings and 2nd anointings in Mormindoms secret sacred closet, she was then ready for the final cue and able now to bestow honors upon her bereft son Barak..
She was ‘sealed’ to bot h Barak and his sister thus making them both temple Mormons and passing on ALL the endowments and anointings and honors she had recieved...
As there is NO doctrine in all of Mormondom to reverse or cause the dead dunkee or the sealed family members to loose the effects of the temple rituals
Barak Hussein Obama was elected president in Nov 2008 as a temple Mormon
and will always remain one...
NOW
You have your Mormon in the White House...
Let the horse races begin...
I had picked up the impression that they were putting on an additional 8,000 missionaries, did I get that wrong?
Because you’re confusing the White Horse Prophecy with what was actually said in all those addresses over the years.
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Oh I understand apparently better than you, Rip.
Typical Mormon ploy, if you don’t agree you don’t understand the ‘higher’ doctrines of Mormonism. Wrong, we understand completely, and I remember discussing it at BYU and in my wards. The masses believe in the prophecy, but downplay it publicly just like they downplay the belief that the US will become a Mormon theocracy during the Millennium to outsiders.
I will give Rip this one thing. I believe Smith gave the prophecy about his own 1844 run for POTUS that originally it was a short term prophecy, and when that wasn’t fulfilled, rather than let the masses at the time believe that Smith gave a false prophecy the leadership began to speak of it as a future event. That doesn’t change that for the last 140+ years it has been taught and believed by Latter day saints and most LDS I know supported Mitt because they thought he was the fulfillment of it.
For the lurkers who want to decide for themselves and actually research it, here are some great, well documented historical pieces and quotes about the WHP....
These are from Mormon friendly pages (although the editor was threatened with excommunication for not supporting Mitt Romney)...
http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/whitehorseprophecy.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/mittromney.htm
http://mormonthink.com/politics.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/whitehorse.htm
This is from a ministry who counters Mormonism, but is still extremely accurate and well sourced. Most professional historians familiar with Mormonism agree that this is a reliable source.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/whitehorseprophecy.htm
Thanks GF
Ive read Steve’s info several times but when Ive posted his name here Ive been told he never tells the truth because he is an ‘apostate’
who would know best what was going on with ETB than his own close family ???
They lowered the age to 18 for the boys...
and 19 for the girls...
there was a reason or 2 ...
possible draft, keeping them busy and marriagable etc..
youre most welcome..
I got it from elsewhere myself
:)
Well, that’s pretty interesting.
I had picked up the impression that they were putting on an additional 8,000 missionaries, did I get that wrong?
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At General Conference this last October (2012), the LDS church officially lowered the age for missionaries to 18 (from 19) for men and to 19 (from 21) for women. The number of additional missionaries varies but 8k isn’t unreasonable. There are several reasons for this...
First, probably expecting a Mitt win and to use it to further Mormonism.
Second, the number of missionaries has been steadily declining over the last decade
Third, Women are taught that it is better to get married than go on a mission (when I was LDS you only went on a mission to make you more ‘marriageable’ if you were a woman and it was basically an admission that at age 21 you were an old maid). This solves that problem.
Fourth, many LDS are chosing to go to state or secular schools rather than BYU and after a year or two ‘in the world’ are less likely to want to go on a mission and are more likely to leave.
Fifth, the rate of returned missionaries leaving is pretty high (about 50% for men). I think SLC expects that if they get them younger, they are less likely to ‘think’ on their mission.
Six, it is harder to leave once you have been through the LDS temple and a mission call is usually the first time you go through the Endowment, so by lowering the age the leadership expects less people to leave or go ‘inactive’.
Even the LDS leadership admits people are leaving in droves and while they do not release number of those leaving if you crunch the numbers they lose OFFICIALLY (resignation,excommunication and death) about 200,000 per year and that is not counting those who just leave and don’t take their names off church records (these people are still counted in the numbers until they are 110).
When I was in grad school we had a support group of ex-LDS and of the 2 dozen who showed up every week, I was the ONLY one who went through the name removal process and no one had been excommunicated. Extrapolating that out and even allowing for the small sample, the LDS activity (tithing paying and attending) is WAY down.
Also, someone told me recently that they are not excommunicating nearly as much as they used to or for the things they used to (homosexuality, and fornication and adultery) which also reinforces the fact that they are losing people.
What change was made at FR, that suddenly switched it into a freedom loving site?
Well, the Q here is: Are you engaging in historical parsing that the listeners at these General Conferences were not engaging in?
Did they think that these discussions were extensions of Smith's 'White Horse' prophecy, or, as you now claim, something altogether different?
Do you somehow know more, Rip, than then-BYU president Dr. Ernest Wilkinson?
“In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7
What about Ezra Taft Benson's numerous references including one as recenlty published by the Lds church in 1988:
“Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
Brigham Young clearly repeatedly taught clear elements of this "prophecy" as well:
“Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, ‘The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ It will be so.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
“[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon’ Elders to save it from utter destruction.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204
“Our government, the best government in the world, is crumbling to pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204, April 8, 1868
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Rip, ALL: What, then is a way to "test" Rip's claim -- that the White Horse prophecy is somehow distinct from the string of similar references during Lds general conferences?
Well, let's start with the prophecy itself, found in a diary entry citing Smith himself: "You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed," the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. "It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber." Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government. "Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion," the prophecy says.
So, then, let's break it down? What are the "key" elements of the prophecy:
#1 The U.S. Constitution to be "almost destroyed."
#2 "It [the Constitution] will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber."
#3 The White Horse receives power to rebuke the nations
#4 The Law goes forth from "Zion" -- which Lds said is the Mormon church
BYU Studies (The Historians Corner) have also done us a "favor" in finding a similar Joseph Smith "prophecy" reference...cited mispellings & all:
“We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 391-392)
The key overlap parts there is that
#1 The constitution is on the "brink of ruin" and the "verge of destruction"
#2 [No reference this time to "hang" or "fiber"]
#3 The nations are indeed involved again -- to be awakened...
#4 Instead of a "White Horse" reference or "Zion" reference, "this people" [meaning Mormons] "will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean..."
In case any doubt that later Lds "prophets" reinforced certain interpretations, here's what to-be Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith said at a General Conference in 1950:
The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us A CORRECT INTERPRETATION WHEREIN HE SAYS that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.) Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
So...of the General Conference references, how many of these elements are contain references to
...the U.S. Constitution,
...hanging by a fiber,
or "‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction…'" (Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70)
or "He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” (Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85)
My position stands. The so-called book of Mormon is false gospel, ie, fiction. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity or the Word of God.
Look up false prophets in KJV.
Must be a flaw (among many flaws) in my up-bringing.
From this apostate...I knew and worked for Reed Benson (ETBs son) and one day saw him in his office crying. When I asked him what was wrong, he told me that his dad didn’t even know him anymore and this was right after the LDS leadership lied from the pulpit during General Conference about how well ETB was doing. When I saw Steve’s letter the first time I knew he was telling the truth because his uncle (still faithful) said the same thing to me about a year before.
And the LDS have to say all apostates are lying because they don’t want to deal with the fact we tell the truth.
Thank you JR for standing for the truth. Most of us understand that your endorsement/support (grudgingly I might add) of Romney, was NOT in any way support of Mormonism or its doctrines.
However, I think that some LDS on here think that it was and expected that they could return to proselytizing Mormonism without any Christians being allowed to counter it.
God Bless you, sir.
Thank you Jim...
I have the highest respect for you and FR
God bless you and have a Happy Veterans Day..
Tennessee Nana
Thanks for the reply, Jim. God doesn't see it as a flaw, but as wisdom.
Romney is now part of history. The Mormon factor is irrelevant at this point. Obama is our president for the next four years. We have to accept it. I ran into a woman at the community pool this morning when I took my 3 yr old grandson for a class. We chatted about Hurricane Sandy and then she used the words ‘those Republicans’ in reference to to her own sister disagreeing with her on storm cleanup.
My problem is I’m surrounded by dems here in PA, not Mormons.
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