I’m in, but I don’t have any Mormon friends on FR, at least not that I know of. I certainly don’t call in a “posse” when confronted with error or confusion. I don’t have one. My answers are my own and were arrived at through much study, contemplation and prayer.
Let’s set up some clarifications. First, if we’re to communicate in any meaningful way we’ll have to check our emotional baggage and past posts with others at the start. We’re two individuals having a serious discussion about a topic of utmost importance - Salvation.
I’ll work to do just that at all times. A tactic once understood is no longer a tactic. If you cannot leave your personal anger or hurt behind I don’t want to exacerbate it. That only serves to delight the Devil. Let’s communicate in normal English and with proper decorum. At any point you want to stop, just don’t reply and that will end it. We’re two Christians discussing a spiritual inquiry and we should be pursuers of the Truth. So let’s begin.
You ask three questions:
1. Is the Bible wrong? If so, show where and demonstrate how it is.
2. Did the angels lie to them when they said He would return the same way He left?
3. If Mormonism is like 1st century Christianity, where and when did Christ; a) take out His endowments, and b) in what temple was He sealed to His wife in order for Him to qualify for celestial glory?
The first one is a large topic, so let’s start learning right there. What do you mean by “wrong”? Do you mean that the Bible will take a person further from God than toward him? Do you mean by wrong that it is incomplete and if yes, how is it incomplete?
To me the Bible isn’t wrong in the first sense at all. It is “wrong” in that it isn’t complete. There is esoteric knowledge not expressed in the written Bible, but alluded to. There is a third type of wrong therefore in a third sense through no fault of its own - misinterpretation/mistranslation by readers or authorities to suit themselves.
Which “wrongness” to you want me to discuss and demonstrate?
(Also, please give me some time to respond. We’ve just taken on four projects and I’m swamped until Monday in setting them up. I want to give this critical topic the attention it deserves.)
10, I’m not sure if you’ve forgotten or not, but our conversations were usually pretty tepid and civil. For you to insinuate that I would call in a “posse”, an oft used slur used all over FR to identify many of the FI’s tells me there is either a lack of confidence or respect in my willingness to discuss singularly. Not sure which. However, I can’t control it if any stumble across the discussion and decide to participate. But I won’t ping them on to it.
My answers are my own as well, through study, research and contemplation.
“Emotional baggage”? Not sure what that is supposed to imply. Am I considered “emotional”?
If we’re going to discuss/debate, then by all means in a civil manner, sarcasm extremely limited and identified as such or non-existent. Ad hominems, personal attacks, thinly veiled inuendos, etc. are off the table.
“Personal anger or hurt”? Jeez, this just keeps getting harder. I do believe I am being confused with someone else here. If I am “angry or hurt”, it is because the system of Mormonism promoted a series of falsehoods [through deliberate obfuscation and ommission] that led me to believe one thing vs. the truth.
If I choose to cease the conversation I’ll let you know. I’m not into mind games, “I win”, etc. There will probably be points of contention or obstacles that just can’t be overcome. A mutual decision to leave them should be agreed upon.
Interpretation of scripture will be another stumbling block. I don’t think either of us is in a position to alter how we each interpret a given passage.
With regards to my first question, I was referring to the passages quoted in post 74, Acts. In order for JS to make the claim of the 1st vision, one has to suspend the verses I quoted as truth. Ergo, is the Bible in error when it’s stated that Christ will return the same way He left? If not, then JS is obviously in error when he claims the “personages” to be God and Christ, yet it is only much later in mormonism that the “personages” are identified as such.
Error vs. completeness. Two different things. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2855791/posts?q=1&;page=51
If memory serves, the RCC has included additional books into the Bible they use. Books that Evangelicals or even Mormons don’t. I’m no theologian, so I’m not in a position to ascertain the veracity of these books.
Mormonism makes many claims of “wrongness” in the Bible. We don’t have enough time to discuss or debate each one. I’m looking at those within the framework of the founding of mormonism. The ones Mormons use, ignore or disavow in order to claim their religion is the true and complete restoration of Christianity.
Understand about being busy, in this environment, I consider it a blessing to be employed. When you have the time. I would also ask for the same consideration.
Regards,
SZ