Posted on 08/18/2012 5:28:28 PM PDT by delacoert
Mitt Romney's choice of Paul Ryan as his vice presidential candidate makes 2012 the first time in American history that a major party has run a ticket without a Protestant on it. Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Ryan is a Roman Catholic.
Have Mormons and Catholics always gotten along as well as the Republican running mates appear to?
No. The root of the conflict is doctrinal. The premise of the Book of Mormon is that the Bible is a corrupt and incomplete account of God's revelation — an implicit criticism of Catholic doctrine. The Book of Mormon also makes reference to an evil "church which is most abominable above all other churches," described more colorfully as "the mother of harlots." Although the Book of Mormon does not identify this evil institution as the Catholic Church, many Mormons have believed the two to be one and the same since the publication of the Book of Mormon in 1830.
Despite their doctrinal differences, Mormons and Catholics cohabited peacefully in Utah in the 19th century — but leaders of the two churches began passive-aggressively sniping at one another in the 20th century. In the late 1910s, Salt Lake City Catholic Bishop Joseph Sarsfield Glass commissioned murals in the Cathedral of the Madeleine that incorporated Bible passages that could easily be read as criticisms of Mormonism, including a line from St. Paul's letter to the Galatians that describes any alternate gospel as "anathema."
And in the 1930s and 1940s, a Catholic radio program and a Catholic pamphlet titled "A 'Foreign Mission' Close to Home!" convinced Mormon leaders — mistakenly — that Catholics were trying to convert Mormons to Catholicism.
Mormon mistrust of the Roman Catholic Church came to a head with the 1958 publication of Bruce McConkie's encyclopedia-like "Mormon Doctrine," which was not an official LDS publication, though McConkie was a low-ranking church leader. McConkie's entry for Catholicism simply referred readers to another entry called "Church of the Devil," which explicitly identified the Roman Catholic Church as being "most abominable above all other churches."
McConkie's book so upset the Catholic bishop of Salt Lake City that he visited the LDS church president in tears, which convinced the LDS leader to rein in anti-Catholic sentiment. Derogatory references to the Catholic Church were removed from later editions of "Mormon Doctrine," which is now out of print, and Mormon-Catholic relations in Utah became much friendlier in the 1960s and thereafter.
The most notable recent Mormon-Catholic clash came in 2001, when the Vatican began requiring Mormons who converted to Catholicism to be rebaptized — a move that implicitly called into question the Christian bona fides of the Mormon church. But the past decade has been a time of alliance between the churches, with Mormon and Catholic leaders coming together to fight gay marriage in Hawaii and California and to stand against perceived government encroachments on religious freedoms — stances that align with the Romney-Ryan platform.
Why would the baptism not count?
This Catholic source explains it.
Full Question: Why doesn’t the Catholic Church accept Mormon baptism?
Answer:
The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism as valid because, although Mormons and Catholics use the same words, those words have completely unrelated meanings for each religion. The Mormon’s very concept of God is infinitely different from that of Christians—even though they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Mormons believe that God is only one of many gods who were once men and that each of us in turn can become what God is now. This process of men becoming gods is said to go back infinitely. But of course none of these gods can be infinite if they are multiple and had a beginning and are actually human beings. In Mormons’ view, both Jesus and the Father are what we would call glorified creatures.
They also believe that Jesus came into existence after the Father, and that the Father and the Son are not one in being. Thus, although they use the phrase “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” in their usage this phrase takes on a meaning that is actually polytheistic and pagan rather than trinitarian.
For an in-depth look at this, see the books Inside Mormonism and When Mormons Call by Isaiah Bennett, available from Catholic Answers. For a shorter but equally incisive take, see Fr. Brian Harrison’s two-part series on Mormonism in the April and May-June 2003 issues of This Rock.
Answered by: Catholic Answers Staff
“LDS teaching is Biblical. It is a matter of choice and interpretation. Christian churches don’t vote on who is and isn’t Christian. That authority rests only with Jesus Christ.”
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All Christians (Catholic, Eastern and Protestant) agree,
Mormonism is not Christian. They deny Our Lord is God!
may I ask, are you LDS?
“First of all Mormons are Christians. Their religion satisfies the foundation of Christianity like any other.
1. That Jesus was our savior and died for our sins. There is now route to heaven except through him.”
Mormons believe that Jesus died to satisfy original sin, that there are sins which cannot be forgiven or satisfied by Christ’s sacrifice and that one must pull oneself up from the boot straps in order to attain godhood. The Mormons do not believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. They believe in multiple levels of heaven which you go to depending on how bad you were. They baptize people after death so they can have a chance to go to one of these lesser heavens. They do have a “outer darkness,” their version of hell, but even that is not permanent and it is possible for people to work their way back up. Of course, only the faithful Mormon during life is able to enter the Celestial heaven, the highest level, where “eternal life” is defined by the Mormon as meaning “godhood,” and an eternal progression into higher and higher forms of godliness. For example, having your own planet, mass producing your own spirit children, and receiving worship.
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“2. Baptism.
Mormons believe they have the one and true Baptism under the assertion that Joseph Smith sits on the right hand of God and not Christ. This is why they are called a religious cult and not a Christian religion.
When you say they agree what do they agree on? My question was what makes a baptism by a Christian legitimate?
It is funny calling you St Pio. My friend has had several visitations from St. Pio, cigar, stigmata and all.
So despite not needing Orders to baptize and despite baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost an LDS baptism isn't valid because they reject the Trinity, correct?
What about divinization, deification or theosis?
How is time measured in eternity?
I think that you need to take that up, with the Catholics.
Which question can’t you answer? Don’t you know and understand eternity, baptism or deification?
Here’s the reason I’m asking:
http://www.lds.org/topics/plan-of-salvation
I found it in a search for “eternity”.
Good point. Unfortunately some will take the bait anyway.
Did you not get that this was about Mormonism and Catholicism?
Why not start your own thread about your issues, and leave this thread to the issue at hand.
Except you have to work for it, sorry that's not Christianity.
Then there is the part about the LDS Jesus being created and not eternal, and being so insufficient that there are extra steps to the LDS belief system.
Oh, and the part about the LDS God once being a man who worked his way to godhood.
Oh, or the part about baptizing dead people so you can get your planet and become your own god.
Oh, and how celestial marriage, that builds up the planet population as well.
Mormonism is not Christianity anymore than sitting on the kitchen counter and calling yourself a toaster makes it so. My Mormon family identifies themselves as Mormon.
Are muslims and catholics in conflict? When did it start?
Would that be the Biblical Jesus, the eternal Jesus or the created Jesus of LDS who is a son of the LDS God who was once a man?
You do realize that LDS say the Bible is not translated correctly and had to be fixed by Joseph Smith - right?
So how is it that you can say LDS is Biblical when the Bible is incorrect according to LDS or are you saying that LDS is wrong, in a subtle way.
Probably.
However, Mormonism and Islam are not.
I think Smith was on shroomes, based upon the more than ten versions of his ‘first vision’ in the woods, house, johnniehouse, bedroom, etc.
Mormons do not identify themselves as Protestant - not at all. They profess all of Christianity to be corrupt. They are restorationists.
No, not exactly. I know how you feel, but here’s what I found - how can a people who act and believe like a Christian’s Christian not be of Christ, the Biblical Jesus Christ.
Have you seen these videos?: http://mormon.org/people/
Just pick out a few at random. They’re incredible, spiritual and moving. They aren’t zombies or crazies and I know this is a best of, edited version, but do you know any Mormons? They’re consistently of high caliber and live in a way consistent with the Savior’s teachings. Even in the videos you get the ordinariness of the people, yet the extra-ordinariness of their lifestyles which are driven by their beliefs.
Maybe we don’t really understand the nature of God or eternity at all: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05551b.htm
Here’s the LDS perspective: http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Time_and_Eternity
Which of my statements was incorrect?
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Would that be the Biblical Jesus, the eternal Jesus or the created Jesus of LDS who is a son of the LDS God who was once a man?
You do realize that LDS say the Bible is not translated correctly and had to be fixed by Joseph Smith - right?
So how is it that you can say LDS is Biblical when the Bible is incorrect according to LDS or are you saying that LDS is wrong, in a subtle way.
ACT is a key word.
LDS act like they are Christians.
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