Posted on 08/05/2012 1:34:44 PM PDT by Morgana
While a student at Dallas Seminary a good friend of mine and I went to an IHOP to study for a Hebrew exam. My friend seemed unusually anxious, tender and, admittedly, a bit awkward. At some point during the evening I finally asked him if he was okay. He looked around cautiously, then in a whisper said to me, “I need to tell you something I have never told anyone else before.”
“Okay,” I said. “You can tell me anything.”
“I’m gay.” With that, I stood up from the table, invited him to stand up, and gave him and a hug and told him he was my brother and that I loved him.
I don’t think that heterosexuals like me can even begin to fathom the intense anxiety embedded within the heart of a gay individual, particularly if he or she is still in the process of attempting to be public about his or her inner-world. Being sensitive about such things, while at the same time affirming and embracing values that are higher than whatever brokenness and messiness we have, whether gay or straight, is tough.
Ironies Christians Must Wrestle With
Here are some ironies that I see regarding homosexuality and Christianity in general. First, I am blown away by the number of couples who claim to be Christian who are living together outside of a sanctioned marriage covenant, are sexually active, etc., and yet willing to denounce homosexual marriage as inappropriate and sinful.
I am also intrigued that our more liberal friends in the church and society move heaven and earth to dismantle the biological/genetic differences between men and women, and yet go to great lengths to amplify the supposed biological/genetic differences between a homosexual and a heterosexual.
I wonder how many heterosexual married men sitting in our pews voice disdain for homosexuality but go home and quietly turn to the Internet to watch lesbian porn.
The church seems so concerned about gay marriage, but I wonder where we were when “no-fault” divorces were first redefining our culture.
What if all the money and manpower available to Chick-Fil-A on August 1, 2012 were directed by Chrisitans toward eradicating the water crisis in Africa or poverty in the inner-cities of America?
When in general terms gays and lesbians find genuine love and care from within their own community and not from followers of Christ, then perhaps their claim we are homophobic is right on.
Values We Must Own, Whether Gay or Straight
Hebrews 12:15-16 puts forward a remarkable statement that on the surface is confusing: See to it . . . that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. The confusion comes because in the Old Testament story of Esau selling his birthright for a bowl of soup (see Genesis 25:29-34) there is not one reference to sexual immorality. What is it that the writer of Hebrews is saying?
He is laying out a principle of life, one that is applicable to the heterosexual person and homosexual person, and it is this: Esau was born hungry and needed food for survival, but that did not necessitate Esau letting his hunger define him and cause him to set aside God’s very best (in his case, the all-important blessing of birthright) for lesser things (a bowl of stew). From this insight consider the following reflections:
First, being born a certain way, whether real or perceived, does not justify forfeiting God’s best for our lives. Esau was hungry, understandably so, but to throw aside what God had designed for his life due to his hunger was completely inappropriate. The assumption that one has a disposition toward certain behavior or beliefs does not justify settling for something that God has not prescribed. As it relates to sex and sexuality, this means that settling for something less than God’s prescription of a one-man/one-woman covenant relationship, as ordained by God in Genesis 1 and 2 and affirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19, is sin, whether one is gay or straight.
Secondly, we must discern how to satisfy our real or perceived dispositions without settling for something less than God’s best for our lives. For Esau it would have been to strongly deny the temptation to forfeit his birthright, satisfying his hunger with something less than the grandiose enticement put before him. As it relates to sex and sexuality, for any of us, straight or gay, it must mean amplifying meaningful intimate relationships without the sexual overtones. It might mean embracing or at least acknowledging an orientation while not letting certain behavior get the best of us.
Thirdly, it might mean we simply don’t get the bowl of soup. “You mean, I am not allowed to be sexually engaged unless it fits within the one-man/one-woman covenant relationship?” Yes. That is exactly what that means. The only alternative to the marriage covenant between one man and one woman is celibacy, regardless of whether one has a gay orientation or a straight orientation. There are no exceptions to this.
Fourthly, we must distinguish between conditioning and conduct. Esau was conditioned by the fact of his existence and his immediate environment to be hungry. Being conditioned a certain way is not inherently wrong. It is what one does with that conditioning that merits attention, and for him it was to throw good things away to satisfy his hunger. With this in mind, it is notable that the Bible never speaks against homosexual orientation–only those who “practice” consensual homosexual acts (see 1 Corinthians 6:9, for example). This has huge implications for gays and heterosexuals–how we perceive one another and ourselves.
Important Take-aways
Any sexual practice beyond the scope of one-man/one-woman convenant marriage is sin, whether one is homosexual or heterosexual. Period.
We are exhorted to limit our fellowship with believers who persist in sexual immorality (see 1 Corinthians 5:9-13), whether gay or straight. This may even include family members or friends that we dearly love. The goal, of course, is restoration (see Galatians 6:1-2).
We should welcome all who in their hunger and thirst for righteousness willingly humble themselves before the Lord Jesus (Gal. 6:10).
Quit arguing with gay people about whether or not they were born gay. All of us have real or perceived dispositions to contend with. The question is whether or not we will fully surrender ourselves to the Lord’s will for our lives.
There is never a place for mistreating or being disrespectful to a homosexual. Or anyone, for that matter. Ever. Doing so is evil.
If heterosexuals have found themselves mistreating or being hateful toward homosexuals, then they must repent. We must remember that Jesus bled for all people. Everyone has worth and dignity.
If homosexuals (and heterosexuals, for that matter) are making sexual choices apart from God’s one-man/one-woman covenant marriage context, then they must repent. God never condemns the orientation, but he is crystal clear regarding his expectations for the unique and powerful gift which is sex.
I agree with you.
While I believe that marriage should remain one man/one woman and thus am against same sex marriage, I do sometimes find it hypocritical that there is not more said (as the author of the piece duly noted) about heterosexual behaviors, such as cohabitation, promiscuous dating, pornography, deliberate single motherhood, and all sundry that have become a craze among hip heteros.
These things break down society as much. I think I am opposed to gay marriage also because I strongly suspect it would mean an increase of the above.
Exactly right.
“I think the homosexualist movement would probably never have gained the power it has now if it weren’t for the acceptance of the birth control pill and abortions earlier in the 20th century. Both Rome and the major Protestant denominations had the same view about these issues until the Anglicans endorsed usage of contraception around 1930. The whole divorce of procreation from the act of sex paved the road for the mind-numbing idiocy of same-sex “marriage” today.”
Bravo. Absolutely. And same sex marriage in the end is really symptom, cosequence, incident of the ideologies of recreational sex, feminism, abortion, no-fault divorce which took hold decades ago. We are in the last consequence of all of this. Same sex marriage is not cause but effect.
“People have the right to make moral judgements for themselves. We as a society reject homosexuality for our own personal reasons, be it religious or it simply is disgusting to us. What has me bothered is that regardless of why we have chosen our views, we have them and are entitled to them, yet, the homosexuals want us to accept their behaviors without question. They want to remove our freedom of choice, which does violate our rights to religous freedom.”
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True, and as RF pointed out we as a society once rejected birth control and heterosex out side of marriage.
Somehow the devil (One being named Margaret Sanger) got inside our churches and changed all that.
Although some of use still believe that way it would appear we are in the minority.
Yes RF I too somehow suspect birth control and abortion has lead to homosexuality but am unsure of exactly how. Homosexuals have always been with us just in the closet. So why after BC and abortion came about did they come out of the closet?
Yes they thrust it in our face and want us to accept them. I can’t help but wonder if we did not go after all the hetero sexual immorality (sex out of wedlock, porn, et cetera) that is around is and clean it up maybe we could rid ourselves of the rest?
To paraphrase Reformed pastor Douglas Wilson, the call for “same-sex marriage” happens at the end, not the beginning, of the fall into depravity. However, it’s sadly not the end. The polyamorists, incestuous, pedophiles and incestuous will soon be demanding their “rights” to criminalize disagreement and disapproval of their sexual practices on the grounds of “fighting hate” as well.
Men aren’t born that way, they get hurt or molested as children and fall into habits that are hard to break. See
Dr.Jeffrey Satinover’s book, “Homosexuality and the Politics
of Truth”. They can get well. There are Christian Missions that are quite successful in helping men to be healed. The homosexual activists want you to think they are born that way. You are making a mistake in believing
them.
.
Could you be reading him wrong? Perhaps I am wrong, but the way I read the article was a bit like what I was taught growing up...that sinful behavior, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is condemned by God.
I think he made good points about no fault divorce, so-called lesbian porn, and orientation vs. behavior.
My grandfather, gone for more than 20 years now, was a pastor of a Protestant church. He was a conservative man and he counseled people who were struggling with all areas of life...financial, spiritual, sexual...and while he urged them to stop SINNING lest they die, he also let them know Jesus Christ was REAL and redeem them from their ways.
Yes, I believe fully that all of this will follow. That is of course unless something can be done to reverse the tide before it’s too late. If the curret trajectory is followed then yes that will be the result.
Slight correction to my previous statement:
To paraphrase Reformed pastor Douglas Wilson, the call for “same-sex marriage” happens at the end, not the beginning, of the fall into depravity. However, it’s sadly not the end. The polyamorists, incestuous, pedophiles and zoophiles will soon be demanding their “rights” to criminalize disagreement and disapproval of their sexual practices on the grounds of “fighting hate” as well.
“but the way I read the article was a bit like what I was taught growing up...that sinful behavior, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is condemned by God.”
That is how I read it and why I posted the article in the first place!
“I think he made good points about no fault divorce, so-called lesbian porn, and orientation vs. behavior.”
You’re not just whistling Dixie!!!!
Yes, we were just discussing the beastiality promotion in the new Skittles ad. It is expected but nonetheless alarming.
Well said. See #27
The what on the skittles ad????
Look at mlizzy’s post to me on the Skittles ad and the article about it.
Sorry, different thread ——
#82 on Outcry after Bishop’s Jibe at Gay Marriage
As a regular church attender, I can never recall a sermon about divorce, abortion, or homesexuality. These are topics that ministers never tackle in public.
Looking into the Old Testament, how many wives did David “the beloved” have. YHWH looked into his heart (and liked what he saw). How about Solomon “the wisest man in the world”. How many wives did he have? As I recall 700. When did the allowed number of wives become one?
The thing we must always remember:
Sexual relations outside of Holy Matrimony are mortal sin.
Holy Matrimony are between one man and one woman.
Everyone is called to chastity, outside of marriage, both spirit and body.
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To pretend that because there are hypocrites in the world that someone else deserves some kind of acceptance for their sinfulness is ridiculous.
Romans 1:[32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
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“Yes RF I too somehow suspect birth control and abortion has lead to homosexuality but am unsure of exactly how. Homosexuals have always been with us just in the closet. So why after BC and abortion came about did they come out of the closet?”
Remember that male homosexuality was quite rampant in the pagan Greco-Roman world and the Christian church always looked down upon it. It closed off the sex gift from its use for promoting the gift of life and the creation of more human beings who could become Christians and serve God. This is a good argument against abortion as well.
Once the Margaret Sanger/Alfred Kinsey/Hugh Hefner view of sexuality took hold of the culture along with the feministic view that “men and women are absolutely the same and interchangeable in all areas), modern day homosexualism was just one of the numerous consequences of that line of thinking.
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