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To: GonzoII

Ah, but that was the traditions of the time. Not the clutter that has since accumulated.

When tradition contradicts Scripture, one must give. I prefer it to be tradition.


6 posted on 08/05/2012 8:11:47 AM PDT by chesley (God's chosen instrument - the trumpet)
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To: chesley; GonzoII

Ah, but that was the traditions of the time. Not the clutter that has since accumulated. When tradition contradicts Scripture, one must give. I prefer it to be tradition.

Surely you know it is impossible for there to be any contradiction between Scripture and RC Tradition, even when the Orthodox view of Tradition differs, as Rome has infallible declared that she is infallible, whenever she speaks in accordance with her scope and subject-based criteria.

Thus Tradition, Scripture and history can only mean what she authoritatively says they mean, which (among other things), that Scripture and history can only mean what she authoritatively says they mean.

Thus, when faced with challenged, she can respond as no less an authority than Manning asserted,

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine....

I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness. Its past is present with it, for both are one to a mind which is immutable. Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves. — Most Rev. Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Lord Archbishop of Westminster, “The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation,” (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228.

Thus to which can be added,

"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. — John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York )

“Absolute, immediate, and unfaltering submission to the teaching of God's Church on matters of faith and morals-----this is what all must give..”

“The Vicar of Christ is the Vicar of God; to us the voice of the Pope is the voice of God. This, too, is why Catholics would never dream of calling in question the utterance of a priest in expounding Christian doctrine according to the teaching of the Church;”

“He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips.” — Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 )]

11 posted on 08/05/2012 10:40:13 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: chesley; anathemized; count-your-change; Salvation; GonzoII
I will reiterate:

Jesus called his students/followers to follow HIS teachings.
Jesus stated they should follow him & his way alone.
Nowhere did he ever state for his students/followers to follow him AND another way.
Nowhere did he ever state for his students/followers to follow his teachings AND another different teaching ALSO.

Come after me and I will make you……..(Matt 4:19)
Come follow me now….. (Matt 8:22)
Come follow me….. (Matt 9:9)

I am the Good Shepherd….and there will be one flock with one shepherd. (John 10:11 & 16)

John, personally chosen by Jesus and who lived with him for 3 years and studied under him, tells us that we need no other Word than that of G-d as given through our Teacher & Shepherd, Jesus:

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth….….And you also, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. (1 John 2:20 & 27)


Yet somehow we have Paul commanding us to follow HIM and all his hellenistic philosophy, INSTEAD of following Jesus who taught Torah
Paul raises himself up to be equal too and the same as Jesus:

"Therefore I urge you to follow ME. (1 Cor. 4:16)
"Brothers, join in imitating ME, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in US." (Phil. 3:17)
Now to him who is able to establish you IN ACCORDANCE WITH MY GOSPEL, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, (1 Cor. 16:25)
"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. (1 Cor. 4:15) "For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles." (2 Cor. 11:5)
Now I’m happy to be suffering for you. I’m completing what is missing from Christ’s sufferings with my body. I’m doing this for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24)
"So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings WE passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Tim. 2:15)
"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, WE command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from US." (2 Thess 3:6)
"But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me…." (Gal. 1:15-16)
"From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus." (Gal. 6:17)


I'm sorry but I put Jesus and his teachings from G-d above all others. I "imitate" and follow Jesus alone.
35 posted on 08/09/2012 9:01:18 AM PDT by brent13a
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