Improvising Illinois priest barred from pulpit

stl today ^ | July 10, 2012 | Tim Townsend

[NYer]

An Illinois priest forced out of his parish by Belleville's Catholic bishop for improvising prayers during Mass will no longer be able to preach in public as of today.

The Rev. William Rowe said Monday that Bishop Edward Braxton has suspended him and removed his "faculties," or license to practice ministry under church law. The move has been associated in recent years with the punishment of clergy accused of sexually abusing minors.

Rowe, the pastor of St. Mary Catholic Church in Mount Carmel, Ill., has not been accused of abuse, but he has clashed with Braxton over altering the liturgical prayers of the Roman Missal — the book of prayers, chants and responses used during Mass.

Last month, St. Mary's parishioners learned that Braxton had officially removed Rowe, their pastor of 18 years. But a separate letter from Braxton recently informed Rowe, 72, that not only would he have to leave the church, but that he could not preach in public anywhere.

Rowe said he could no longer celebrate public Masses or preside at weddings, funerals or baptisms. The only exception, Rowe said, involves a dying person; he can still hear a confession, baptize or anoint that person.

Rowe was scheduled to witness a wedding Saturday — and four others over the summer — but won't be able to preside. He also will not be able to preside over a funeral Wednesday for an elderly St. Mary's parishioner.

"That's very hard for the family," Rowe said. "I'll be there, but I can't participate."

[dangus]

Abednego = “servant of Nergal,” a Babylonian rooster god of the netherworld.
Shadrach = “command of Achu,” a Babylonian moon god.

[BipolarBob]

"Unfortunately, his bastardized, protestant bible leaves out the part "

Don't you just hate those bastardized protestant Bibles? I have numerous Bible versions. Several commentaries. A comprehensive concordance. And still it boils down to me understanding what God wishes to impart to me. I think that is what is special about being a YOPIOSer. Now Shadrach, Mischach and Abednego may have been Babylonian names given to Daniel and his friends but his God is the same regardless of what you called Daniel. You can call Daniel "Bozo" but his God is the same. That didn't change.

[Titanites]

I was to do a reading during a Mass once and forgot my prepared notes.

Which of the 3 Scripture readings were you doing? You don't need prepared notes unless you're doing the homily.

I wasn't worried about it, because I figured they had a Bible there I could read from. I was wrong; there was no Bible.

Why would there need to be a full Bible there for you to use, when the Scripture for that day is provided? You do know that the Mass is not a Bible study session, and that you should do your study of the day's readings in the context of the full Bible before you go to Mass, don't you? The Mass is a celebration of the Eucharist and Bible study is held separately.

[dangus]

Largely true, impimp, but not exactly accurate.

While defending the notion of the primacy of Peter, one of the Church Fathers (I’m sorry, but I forget which one) defined that Peter’s faith was that within Peter upon which the Church was built.

HereInTheHeartland’s assertion is simply wrong. “Peter” comes from the Greek, “Petros,” which is a translation of “Cephas.” The bible repeatedly notes that Peter was actually named “Cephas,” and neither “Petros” or “Petra.” Thus, Jesus said, “You are Cephas, and upon this Cephas I will build my church.” The notion that Jesus meant some distinction between “Petros” and “Petra” is both anachronistic, and, when considering that Jesus was speaking in Hebrew/Aramaic, nonsensical.

(Anachronism: Certain Greek poets would poetically speak of a “motherlode” as “Petra”, and a hewn rock as “Petros,” but this distinction is alien to the bible. “Petros” is simply the masculine form of “Petra.” It exists nowhere in the Greek bible, including the translated Old Testament. )

But Peter would become the embodiment of the church: “I am the Good Shepherd,” Jesus says, but later says, “Peter, shepherd my sheep.” But the Church would not be comprised in the sinful MAN named Peter, but in the faith embodied and professed by Peter. Thus, Peter is told, “Whatever you declared bound (law) on Earth, (has been/shall be)* bound in Heaven, and whatever you declared loosed (permitted) on Earth, (has been/shall be)* loosed in Heaven.”

*The verb suggests a constant state, thus although it is often translated, “shall be,” it also will always have been. Bonus points for translating “will always have been” into Greek!

[netmilsmom]

You’re Brilliant!

[netmilsmom]

>>There is no Bible present at their Mass. Lecitonaries are not Bibles and they don't resemble Bibles. <<

Some Protestants and their Bible worship makes me laugh. It's more than paper pages with ink words. It's the Word of God and proclaimed in every Holy Mass.

We really don't need it like this..

to get the full effect.

In fact, I would dare say that any kid in Awana can spout the words from cards given to them by their leaders. They don't need the "book". And if anyone needs to hold a bible like a talisman, you're doing it wrong. It's the Word of God. If it's in your heart, you don't need it sitting in front of you moment to moment.

[dangus]

>> I have numerous Bible versions. Several commentaries. A comprehensive concordance. And still it boils down to me understanding what God wishes to impart to me. <<

Congratulations. And I’m sure every single last one of them has been censored by Martin Luther. And every single commentary written by someone who followed him into apostasy, right?

[Rashputin]

Christ is the Rock that the church is built on, not Peter.<

Yeah, sure, and by applying that Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation along with frequent references to personal preferences, those who worship their own, Most High and Holy Self claim:

Matthew 4:4 Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.
means "every written word",

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
means, "by faith alone", and that

Matthew 26:26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body.
means, "this is is a symbol for my body but I'm too stupid to say what I really mean".

People who will twist and torture Scripture that way love darkness rather than light and will do whatever it takes to avoid the light. Like fleeing from a crucifix the same way 'B' movie vampires do. All anyone can do for them is pray for them because they only love and worship their own, Most High and Holy Self. Sad, but true.

And by the by, Christ is the Cornerstone and the Apostles are each foundation stones in the foundation. That's explicitly stated in Scriptue although those enamored of various heresies tend to pretend they never happened across that passage and then change the subject right away.

have a nice day

[impimp]

I stand behind what I said. Show me a reference to an historical figure who thought that Jesus was talking about himself in Matthew 16:18-20.

[dangus]

impimp, you’re asking me to argue a straw man’s argument I didn’t make. I characterized your statement as “largely true,” and HereInTheHeartland as flat-out wrong, so don’t act like I’ve taken up opposition to you.

[BipolarBob]

Ephesians 6:17 King James Version (KJV) 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

I guess the correct interpretation is "take it or leave it"?

[Mrs. Don-o]

I love personal prayer! Honest to God!

You are right, of course, about the value of spontaneity in the course of personal prayer. It's like spontaneity in love talk with your spouse. There's lots of opportunity --- lots, and it's simply indispensible.

There's a time for everything: a time for private prayer, and also a time for liturgical prayer. The difference is like the difference between love-talk and marriage vows. In marriage, you're not just expressing impulsive heartfelt twosiness for right now: you're pledging in public to the permanent institution of marriage, which is bigger than just the two at the moment. It spans lifetimes, it brings new life into being, it creates durable, recognized kinship, it links generations.

Liturgy is like that. It doesn't take the place of personal prayer; it's the public kind, it links the whole Church, "from the rising to the setting of the sun," past and present, east to west, with angels and archangels and saints and martyrs, in heaven and on earth.

It's therein that the priest was going off track. Does he want the opportunity to be creative and innovative, to do his own personal thing? Great. He can do his personal thing 23.25 hours a day. But during the Mass--- he should forget himself. He is in persona Christi. He is a priest with Christ. He is praying with, on behalf of, and within, and for, and as, the Church.

Peace be with you!

[Not gonna take it anymore]

Great response, Mrs. Don-o.

[dangus]

St. Ambrose (c.380) writes:

Faith, then, is the foundation of the Church, for it was not said of Peter’s flesh, but of his faith, that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’ But his confession of faith conquered hell.

But so that this gives no succor to Protestant heretics, I’ll quote St. Ambrose further:

It is to Peter himself that He says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church.’ Where Peter is, there is the Church.

St. Ambrose’s point was that although Peter is now dead, the faith lives on.

Other Christian Fathers on the Rock that is Saint Peter.:

Tertullian

“For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]” (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]).

“[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church” (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

The Letter of Clement to James

“Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect” (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).

Origen

“[I]f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter . . . a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens” (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage

“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

“The Lord is loving toward men, swift to pardon but slow to punish. Let no man despair of his own salvation. Peter, the first and foremost of the apostles, denied the Lord three times before a little servant girl, but he repented and wept bitterly” (Catechetical Lectures 2:19 [A.D. 350]).

“[Simon Magus] so deceived the city of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him. . . . While the error was extending itself, Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church, and they set the error aright. . . . [T]hey launched the weapon of their like-mindedness in prayer against the Magus, and struck him down to earth. It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven [Matt. 16:19]” (ibid., 6:14).

“In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts 9:32–34]” (ibid., 17:27).

Ephraim the Syrian

“[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the firstborn in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures” (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

Ambrose of Milan

“[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . .’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?” (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

Pope Damasus I

“Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it” (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

Jerome

“‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division” (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).

“Simon Peter, the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion . . . pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord” (Lives of Illustrious Men 1 [A.D. 396]).

Pope Innocent I

“In seeking the things of God . . . you have acknowledged that judgment is to be referred to us [the pope], and have shown that you know that is owed to the Apostolic See [Rome], if all of us placed in this position are to desire to follow the apostle himself [Peter] from whom the episcopate itself and the total authority of this name have emerged” (Letters 29:1 [A.D. 408]).

Augustine

“Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear ‘I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven’” (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

“Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies” (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415]).

“Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?” (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]).

Council of Ephesus

“Philip, presbyter and legate of [Pope Celestine I] said: ‘We offer our thanks to the holy and venerable synod, that when the writings of our holy and blessed pope had been read to you . . . you joined yourselves to the holy head also by your holy acclamations. For your blessednesses is not ignorant that the head of the whole faith, the head of the apostles, is blessed Peter the apostle’” (Acts of the Council, session 2 [A.D. 431]).

“Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome] said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’” (ibid., session 3).

Pope Leo I

“Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . has placed the principal charge on the blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles, and from him as from the head wishes his gifts to flow to all the body, so that anyone who dares to secede from Peter’s solid rock may understand that he has no part or lot in the divine mystery. He wished him who had been received into partnership in his undivided unity to be named what he himself was, when he said: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18], that the building of the eternal temple might rest on Peter’s solid rock, strengthening his Church so surely that neither could human rashness assail it nor the gates of hell prevail against it” (Letters 10:1 [A.D. 445).

“Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . established the worship belonging to the divine [Christian] religion. . . . But the Lord desired that the sacrament of this gift should pertain to all the apostles in such a way that it might be found principally in the most blessed Peter, the highest of all the apostles. And he wanted his gifts to flow into the entire body from Peter himself, as if from the head, in such a way that anyone who had dared to separate himself from the solidarity of Peter would realize that he was himself no longer a sharer in the divine mystery” (ibid., 10:2–3).

“Although bishops have a common dignity, they are not all of the same rank. Even among the most blessed apostles, though they were alike in honor, there was a certain distinction of power. All were equal in being chosen, but it was given to one to be preeminent over the others. . . . [So today through the bishops] the care of the universal Church would converge in the one See of Peter, and nothing should ever be at odds with this head” (ibid., 14:11).

[BipolarBob]

"he just led his congregation in prayers to Babylonian demon-gods."

Still unwilling to concede you were wrong? They were led to pray to the same God that Daniel(or by whatever name you wish to call him) was delivered from death by the fiery furnace. Don't let pride put scales over your eyes or your reason.

[Rashputin]

That is "the Word of God" not "the written Word of God as you prefer to interpret it for yourself".

Which means that if anyone has a "take it or leave it" attitude it's not Catholics but all the tens of thousands of different sects, cults, and psuedo-churches, that have grown out of the Protestant Rebellion against The One True Church Christ Himself established.

Have a nice day

[BipolarBob]

We were talking about the Bible. Taking your Bible with you to church and other appropriate places.

"They don't need the "book". And if anyone needs to hold a bible like a talisman, you're doing it wrong. It's the Word of God."

By straying off topic and misinterpreting the posts here, maybe some of you do need someone to explain the Bible to you. I would no more go to church without my Bible than I would my shoes. If the priest/rabbi/preacher reads from the Bible, I follow along. If his teaching is in error I inquire about it at the appropriate time. I do not blindly follow anybody or church.

[Rashputin]

No, we're talking about the Word of God, at least that's what the Bible has written in it according to the verse you posted./pre>

But then, I'm not the least bit surprised to see someone ignore what is written and substitute their personal interpretation as if their personal preferences are the actual references.

have a nice day

[dangus]

No, Bipolar Bob, but your ignorance of Daniel is astounding. Daniel is a Hebrew name; I never suggested it wasn’t. He was not thrown into the furnace with the three young men.

As for that preacher: Do I think God sends anyone to Hell because of a linguistic error? No. Do I think that it was a mere linguistic error behind this mistake? No, the preacher was also having fun with “Abednego:” “Ol’ Bad Nigga! That’s who I am, too! I’m an ol’ bad nigga!” Do I think that preacher is going to Hell? Well, he’s in danger, since he’s cut himself off from the True Church which Christ, Himself, founded. Do I think that his slip-up was harmless? Meh, I’m not sure. Praying to a demon-god, led by someone who calls himself “O’ Bad Nigga” can’t be a good thing. Given that church’s strange obsession with horribly misguided “deliverance ministries,” I’ve often wondered whether such a “slip-up” might not be Satan’s way of laughing at them.

[Coleus]

he has clashed with Braxton over altering the liturgical prayers of the Roman Missal — the book of prayers, chants and responses used during Mass. >>>

I wonder what parts of the became inclusive? I still hear priests who won’t use the word “His” in the Nicene Crede replacing it with “God’s” and won’t say pray “bretheren” instead will say “pray my sisters and brothers that our...” notice the word “sisters” is always first.

and I’ve heard one priest use his own Eucharistic Prayer and stated that “we give or refer to God many titles: Father, Creator, MOTHER, etc..”