THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE [Vanity]

Colofornian | July 4, 2012 | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

The Mormon-churched owned Deseret Newspaper announced Tuesday (July 3) (for indirect link, see Deseret News Exclusive: ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]) that ABC's upcoming Friday Night re-airing of "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" would include a new segment with Lds representative Elder William R. Walker, "a general authority who oversees the temple department, to New York City" based upon a "sit-down interview with Barbara Walters near the Manhattan Temple last month."

Per the Deseret News, "The 'Heaven' special originally aired back in December 2005 and featured interviews with religious leaders from virtually all of the leading world religions. But the LDS Church was not among those featured. With nine out of 10 Americans claiming to believe in heaven, the show was one of the most-watched programs in the history of network television. 'We felt the program was so good and so strong we wanted to rerun it,' Walters said. 'And with Gov. Romney running for president, we felt it was very important to include the Mormon point of view this time.'"

While the Deseret News claimed that "Elder Walker definitely delivered the Mormon point of view in a wide-ranging exchange with Walters that covered everything from what goes on in Mormon temples to the practice of baptizing for the dead to the concept of eternal marriage..." Barbara Walters undoubtedly missed...

THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE (Most of which Barbara Walters would have flunked in covering for this week's special)!!!

Hence, these are included below for your inspection:

RANK	SURPRISING MORMON AFTERLIFE BELIEF	EXPLANATION/SOURCE
10.	Upon death, ALL -- Mormon and non-Mormon alike -- enter a godless intermediate place called the "spirit world."	This Mormon "spirit world" is "the place of residence for all those who have died and are awaiting the resurrection and the inseparable connection of their spirits and bodies. Thus, it is not the place where God the Father, the resurrected Lord, and other resurrected beings dwell. Rather, it is an intermediate condition or state where people await the resurrection—a sphere where disembodied spirits live in one of several conditions according to what their mortal lives have merited." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen) Also: Note that where you live -- ghetto-wise in this "spirit world" -- depends upon mere merit. (See also #4 below for more on "merit" status)
9.	This Mormon 'spirit world' is actually tied to this earth, where Mormon "missionaries" earthlings die and then become Mormon "spirit missionaries" on the other side of death	The Mormon spirit world is "on this earth." Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson declared that “the spirit world is not far away. Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). This Mormon "spirit world" is no place of rest as the Bible describes heaven. Yup, for Mormons "...the spirit world is the place where disembodied spirits go. It is a tangible, substantial sphere incorporated with our earth, the focal point of a massive missionary effort in which we share." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). Thus, Lds get to continue to earn their way to heaven by trying to bump up others along the way -- becoming "saviors" in the process! See #8 for more on this!
8.	And where does Baptism of the dead intersect with the alleged activity of disembodied Mormon "spirit missionaries?" Those spirit missionaries are going to those in temporary spirit prison to tell them they've been proxy baptized, which, in turn fulfills the very purpose of EVERY Mormon coming to planet earth from the planet Kolob. And what was that purpose, per Lds third "prophet" John Taylor -- as repeated in an official LDS church book published in 2001? 'Twas simple: "We came here to be saviors. 'What, saviors?' 'Yes.' 'Why, we thought there was only one Savior.' 'Oh, yes, there a great many.'"	Source of Taylor quote: Deseret News, Feb. 11, 1873, as quoted in 2001 in the official Lds church book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, p. 187 (For similar such quotes that regard Mormons as competing "saviors" to Jesus Christ, see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others?)
7.	Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to be cancelled like some bad Fall TV program. Hence, Mormon baptism of the dead then becomes a sort of 'get out of hell' card (into a low-degree of heaven) -- like Monopoly's 'Get out of jail card.' The wicked go to "spirit prison," which is not eternal hell.	Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (Official Lds publication, True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81) Boy is that getting out of hell free or what? Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280)
6.	The Book of Mormon is actually closer to the Bible on describing the eternality of hell than current Mormon teachings!!!	* Helaman 6:28 and Moroni 8:13 in the Book of Mormon describe hell as being "everlasting" and "endless." * Mormon leaders, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say hell is a never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire? * Why does the Mormon book within the Book of Mormon describe a condition as a “misery that NEVER dies”??? (Mormon 8:38) * Why does Alma 42:16 in the Book of Mormon say that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul? [Since the life of the soul is NOT temporary, what implications does that leave?] * Why does Alma 34:32-35 in the Book of Mormon say there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye CANNOT say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye CANNOT say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34) [Please see also Alma 12:24 that says that "life is a time to prepare for eternal state after resurrection" -- not the after life!!!] * Why does both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 in the Book of Mormon say there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22). * Very early in Joseph Smith's theology, Joseph did an "about face" on the eternality of hell and tried to claim that hell was described as "eternal" because God was eternal; that hell was described as "everlasting" because God was everlasting. IOW, he tried to change it to an adjective description of God -- of the type of punishment. But we have other verses in the Book of Mormon -- like Helaman 7:16 -- where it just doesn't "work" as an adjective: "Yea, how could you have given way to the enticing of him who is seeking to hurl away your souls down to everlasting misery and endless wo." Is "wo" just a "type" of wo because of who issued it? Sorry...'tis quite plain -- and you can't play with words...Anybody speaking plain English would interpret the above as "without end." Don’t you get the feeling that Mormon leader propaganda has the effect that even their BoM verses are subject to scissors – being cut out – if it doesn’t fit with what their leaders say?
5.	"Eternal life" is redefined to be an exclusive term that applies to temple Mormons ONLY! "Eternal life" is thus reserved for legalistically abiding Mormons ONLY. "Eternal life" does NOT = ALL living forever with Heavenly Father; 'tis ONLY applies for those who EARN exaltation...and "exaltation" is a Mormon by-word for becoming a god!Hence, to the Mormon, resurrection alone does not = eternal life.	Yes, Mormons believe that just about all people become immortal due to the resurrection. But "eternal life" is ONLY for those who live in the presence of Heavenly Father -- and become "gods" themselves (what Mormons call "exaltation"...To Mormons, "exaltation" and "eternal life" are interchangeable terms...but "eternal life" and heaven-as-a-residence for non-Mormons are not interchangeable terms..."eternal life" is ONLY for Mormons! * ”Eternal life is a term which always means ‘exaltation,’ when used in the Scriptures (John 3:15; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:2; 2 Nephi 2:28; D&C 5:22; 18:8; 131:5; 138:51; Moses 1:39).” (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p. 88) Sub-title: “WHAT IS EXALTATION? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives.” (Older 1970s version, p. 289) * ”Exaltation is a synonym for eternal life. Exaltation comes only to those who inherit the highest degree within the celestial kingdom…it consists in the continuation of the family unit throughout eternity; it is the type of life that is lived by our Heavenly Father.” (Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrines and Covenants, 2:85) * “Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge, and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 302) * “Eternal life…In fact…means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God.” (Milton R. Hunter, an LDS Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 11) * ”Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. ‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 53) * “Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection.” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:479 Quote for resurrection alone not = 'eternal life': * “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77)
4.	Trusting in Jesus Christ and relating to Jesus Christ for the Mormon thereby only amounts to what your life MERITS. Yup. You're ONLY a cosmic Boy Scout!	The final quote in the previous row was: “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) Hence -- for MORMONS -- heaven isn't a gift...it's based upon "all you can do" and merits: * Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life” (Lds apostle Robert D. Hales, “Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets,” Ensign (Conference Edition), Nov. 1985, p. 20) * “…immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But ONLY THOSE who obey the fullness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life. (D&C 29:43-44)…it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ…they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fullness of the Father. THEY ARE GODS.” McConkie, p. 237, 1979 ed. [My note: Of course, McConkie cites D&C 29:43-44…but these verses say no such thing…v. 43 actually says that ”immortality unto eternal life” is given to ”as many as would BELIEVE”…’shifty’ McConkie…trying to pull a rabbit when no hat exists] * “The…gift of eternal life…is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinance and covenants of the temple.” (Lds apostle Russell M. Nelson, “Divine Love,” Ensign, Feb. 2003, p. 24 * "Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on MERIT -- through the faithful performance of duty - ONLY those who are WORTHY shall receive it." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:5) These citations are outright heresy taught by heretics! If you don't believe Mormons teach you have to "work" for eternal life vs. Jesus giving it to us NOW in a relationship with Him that starts now, then may I suggest you first read John 17:3 -- and then compare to these above citations from Lds leaders! For another thread on this topic, please see: what qualifies people to live with heavenly father for all eternity? (MormonISM - open)
3.	If you qualify for Mormon full grown-up godhood status, you will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; and that they will receive prayers as well as worship, glory, adoration, etc.	Both the 2009 Lds Gospel Principles book -- see Exaltation (The Plan for Our Progression)-Mormon (OPEN)...and one who reaches out to Lds, Pastor Mark Cares, see “As man is God once was; as God is, man may become.” [Infamous couplet highlights Lds polytheism] ...highlight these five supposed "blessings" that temple Mormons ALONE are to receive: a. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62). (My note: And this is for TEMPLE Mormons only...which, right now, is only 15-20% of all Mormons!) b. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23). (My note: See McConkie quote above as well) c. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase. (My note: "Elder Walker" does discuss this on Barbara Walters' upcoming special...as Lds think this is some sort of trump card of their 'gospel' that's attractive) d. They will receive a fulness of joy. e. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20).” (Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; will receive prayers; worship, glory, adoration, etc.)
2.	You -- if you're a tithing married Mormon in good standing ONLY with the Mormon church -- get to not only be a 'god' -- but a god of your own world!!!!! (This, of course, includes eternal physical sex with either your wife or wives in order to propagate that world with 'spirit children')	Some Mormons deny that Lds teach that you "get your own world as a god." For the scoop, see Mormon Professors Confuse Doctrine and Rumor (especially note post #5 of that thread) Here is a sample quotation from a Mormon "prophet": “To become like him we must have ALL the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an EARTH LIKE THIS ONE WE ARE ON and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. WE WILL HAVE AN ENDLESS ETERNITY FOR THIS." Source: Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48, as cited by The Mormon Church’s annual Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1978-79, p. 131
1.	Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!!	When Mormons talk about eternal life & exaltation, they're not just talking about "heaven" What's the "rest of the story"? * Mormons believe that only their “Melchizedek priests” (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for “dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.” (D&C 76:62) In the Mormon view of heaven, ONLY those entering into Mormon "covenants" and obeying fully Mormon laws get to live forever in God's presence: * Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessing--which is also called exaltation--comes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants (Source: Preparing for Exaltation Teacher's Manual, p. 4, 1998) * ”Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in God’s presence and continue as families.” (same source, p. 52) * “’Eternal life’ is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God…Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel…continuing through…the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple…” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678)

[Utah Binger]

I am SICKENED, JUST SICKENED!

[Elsie]

 

He said the mask looked like something out of “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.”

“It’s like white men years ago” who would dress in blackface, he added.

 

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How many years? 34?

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

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Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 

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[Elsie]

Shouldn't you be outside; watering your trees?

It's 98° here and high humidity.

I'm waiting for the shadow of the barn to shift so I can braze up holes in my tractor gas tank.

(Yes; I've flushed the gas out and rinsed it quite well with water...)

[Elsie]

How to do it:

 

It's 98° here and high humidity.

 

 

It's 98&deg here and high humidity.

[MHGinTN]

Well and truly stated. And succinct!

[Utah Binger]

We are overcast with the smoke from the fire up at Todds Junction where 14 meets 89. It is hovering just up on top above Glendale with about 8000 acres still burning.

http://fox13now.com/2012/07/01/evacuations-ordered-in-kane-co-fire/

It is 60 degrees right now and really smoky.

[88keys]

RE knowing the nature of God, and the path to salvation, you wrote: "Apparently you do -- and, apparently, ONLY you!"

That's a stretch too far, my FRiend. I was of course including myself in the group of "everyone" who does not actually know these things, or more accurately to the original post, in the group of "no one" who actually knows these things. I would go so far as to say, YOU are the one who seems to be saying you DO know these mysteries, and you are "lecturing" and criticizing ME because I don't agree with your view?

That's a pointless and unprovable argument, so shall we just call a "truce", please? We both believe we know what we think we know or don't know, and there is no reason for disrespect on either side!

[cerberus]

Yawn

[88keys]

I appreciate your thoroughness in posting all these Scriptures. Which translation of the Bible do you use?

You are free to criticize, preach, disagree with, or say whatever you want to to any of your fellow FReepers as long as it's not profane, of course! In response to your post, a few scriptures come to mind to me too (I can look up the exact quotes and citations if you need them)..."Judge not, lest ye be judged"..."Now we see as in a mirror, dimly"..."I give you a new commandment"..."the time is not yours to know" (referring to the coming of the Kingdom of God)..."In my Father's house, there are many mansions"...

My point is, people who should be more or less on the same side should not waste time arguing amongst themselves about personal individual religious beliefs when the country is going to "Heck" (as you would say) in a handbasket!

This thread was originally in "breaking news/activism", which is how I wound up here in the first place...by mistake, clearly, and I will be more careful in future!

[Elsie]

I just came in from being fruatrated at all my brazing work CRACKING and leaking!

It is 101°.

[Elsie]

Yawn

YAPRFAMA

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Yet
Another
Profound
Rebuttal
From
A
MORMON
Apologist.

[Elsie]

Which translation of the Bible do you use?

Any one that's handy.

NIV mostly, because it is quite readable.

KJV when remembering the beauty of the English language (and the way I studied it LONG ago.)

[Elsie]

)..."Judge not, lest ye be judged"..."

(I can look up the exact quotes and citations if you need them)

This must be the favorite verse of those who do n ot want their doctrine looked at too closely.

I'm QUITE sure you are aware of the OTHER verse that speak of judging; right?

But maybe their are some lurkers who are NOT familiar with them.

So...

Judge NOT???

 

Sigh............

 

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Jesus has commanded us to judge!

 

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“Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?... And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?... Do you not know that we shall judge angels?... How much more, things that pertain to this life?.. If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge ? (1 Corinthians 6:1-5).

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Many commands of God require the exercise of righteous judgment.

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“But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us” (2 Thessalonians 3:6).

“And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother” (2 Thessalonians 3:14,15).

“Teach and exhort these things. If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wrangling of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself” (2 Timothy 6:2b-5).

“Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple” (Romans 16:17,18).

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All these commands require the careful exercise of righteousness judgment. Do not be deceived by smooth words and flattering speech. Beware of wolves who come to you with a sheep’s skin.

We must be careful not to make unqualified judgments. But we must judge appropriately when commanded to do so.

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 “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”  (John 7:24).

[Elsie]

My point is, people who should be more or less on the same side should not waste time arguing amongst themselves about personal individual religious beliefs when the country is going to "Heck" (as you would say) in a handbasket!

The same POLITICAL side, perhaps; but a great gulf fixed in another.

I worry about souls going to HELL and NOT in a handbasket.

When 'personal religious beliefs' amount to HERESY of Christianity; I damrn sure will be speaking up about it!

[cerberus]

Yet Another Profound Rebuttal From A MORMON Apologist.

I am not rebutting anything.

Obviously he believes a lot of things that I consider silly as do most politicians.

I just see people with rigid and questionable notions upset by others with equally rigid and questionable notions and, frankly, I don't give a crap.

By the way, this is in no way an endorsement of Romney though I do expect to take a "pragmatic" approach and vote for him.

[Elsie]

I just see people with rigid and questionable notions upset by others with equally rigid and questionable notions and, frankly, I don't give a crap.

Yet here you are; wasting your time.

[Elsie]

it’s 103; I’m tanked up with ice cream and a large ice water and I’m heading out to try to patch the darn gas tank some more!

[MHGinTN]

Have you tried JB Weld?

[greyfoxx39]

)..."Judge not, lest ye be judged"..."

I have to laugh every time the mormon defenders throw this one out. In my personal experience, having been born mormon, raised mormon, married mormon and left mormonism I testify that mormons on the whole are the MOST judmental group of people I have ever encountered!

They are also the most thin-skinned group whenever their superior attitude of belonging to the "only true and living church" is refuted....they howl like scalded cats!

[yetidog]

Go way. Just go away.