Posted on 07/04/2012 2:04:01 PM PDT by Colofornian
The Mormon-churched owned Deseret Newspaper announced Tuesday (July 3) (for indirect link, see Deseret News Exclusive: ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]) that ABC's upcoming Friday Night re-airing of "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" would include a new segment with Lds representative Elder William R. Walker, "a general authority who oversees the temple department, to New York City" based upon a "sit-down interview with Barbara Walters near the Manhattan Temple last month."
Per the Deseret News, "The 'Heaven' special originally aired back in December 2005 and featured interviews with religious leaders from virtually all of the leading world religions. But the LDS Church was not among those featured. With nine out of 10 Americans claiming to believe in heaven, the show was one of the most-watched programs in the history of network television. 'We felt the program was so good and so strong we wanted to rerun it,' Walters said. 'And with Gov. Romney running for president, we felt it was very important to include the Mormon point of view this time.'"
While the Deseret News claimed that "Elder Walker definitely delivered the Mormon point of view in a wide-ranging exchange with Walters that covered everything from what goes on in Mormon temples to the practice of baptizing for the dead to the concept of eternal marriage..." Barbara Walters undoubtedly missed...
Hence, these are included below for your inspection:
RANK |
SURPRISING MORMON AFTERLIFE BELIEF |
EXPLANATION/SOURCE |
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10. | Upon death, ALL -- Mormon and non-Mormon alike -- enter a godless intermediate place called the "spirit world." | This Mormon "spirit world" is "the place of residence for all those who have died and are awaiting the resurrection and the inseparable connection of their spirits and bodies. Thus, it is not the place where God the Father, the resurrected Lord, and other resurrected beings dwell. Rather, it is an intermediate condition or state where people await the resurrectiona sphere where disembodied spirits live in one of several conditions according to what their mortal lives have merited." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen) Also: Note that where you live -- ghetto-wise in this "spirit world" -- depends upon mere merit. (See also #4 below for more on "merit" status) | |
9. | This Mormon 'spirit world' is actually tied to this earth, where Mormon "missionaries" earthlings die and then become Mormon "spirit missionaries" on the other side of death | The Mormon spirit world is "on this earth." Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson declared that the spirit world is not far away. Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). This Mormon "spirit world" is no place of rest as the Bible describes heaven. Yup, for Mormons "...the spirit world is the place where disembodied spirits go. It is a tangible, substantial sphere incorporated with our earth, the focal point of a massive missionary effort in which we share." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). Thus, Lds get to continue to earn their way to heaven by trying to bump up others along the way -- becoming "saviors" in the process! See #8 for more on this! | |
8. | And where does Baptism of the dead intersect with the alleged activity of disembodied Mormon "spirit missionaries?" Those spirit missionaries are going to those in temporary spirit prison to tell them they've been proxy baptized, which, in turn fulfills the very purpose of EVERY Mormon coming to planet earth from the planet Kolob. And what was that purpose, per Lds third "prophet" John Taylor -- as repeated in an official LDS church book published in 2001? 'Twas simple: "We came here to be saviors. 'What, saviors?' 'Yes.' 'Why, we thought there was only one Savior.' 'Oh, yes, there a great many.'" | Source of Taylor quote: Deseret News, Feb. 11, 1873, as quoted in 2001 in the official Lds church book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, p. 187 (For similar such quotes that regard Mormons as competing "saviors" to Jesus Christ, see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others?) | |
7. | Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to be cancelled like some bad Fall TV program. Hence, Mormon baptism of the dead then becomes a sort of 'get out of hell' card (into a low-degree of heaven) -- like Monopoly's 'Get out of jail card.' The wicked go to "spirit prison," which is not eternal hell. | Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (Official Lds publication, True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81) Boy is that getting out of hell free or what? Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280) | |
6. | The Book of Mormon is actually closer to the Bible on describing the eternality of hell than current Mormon teachings!!! | * Helaman 6:28 and Moroni 8:13 in the Book of Mormon describe hell as being "everlasting" and "endless." * Mormon leaders, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say hell is a never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire? * Why does the Mormon book within the Book of Mormon describe a condition as a misery that NEVER dies??? (Mormon 8:38) * Why does Alma 42:16 in the Book of Mormon say that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul? [Since the life of the soul is NOT temporary, what implications does that leave?] * Why does Alma 34:32-35 in the Book of Mormon say there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye CANNOT say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye CANNOT say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34) [Please see also Alma 12:24 that says that "life is a time to prepare for eternal state after resurrection" -- not the after life!!!] * Why does both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 in the Book of Mormon say there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22). * Very early in Joseph Smith's theology, Joseph did an "about face" on the eternality of hell and tried to claim that hell was described as "eternal" because God was eternal; that hell was described as "everlasting" because God was everlasting. IOW, he tried to change it to an adjective description of God -- of the type of punishment. But we have other verses in the Book of Mormon -- like Helaman 7:16 -- where it just doesn't "work" as an adjective: "Yea, how could you have given way to the enticing of him who is seeking to hurl away your souls down to everlasting misery and endless wo." Is "wo" just a "type" of wo because of who issued it? Sorry...'tis quite plain -- and you can't play with words...Anybody speaking plain English would interpret the above as "without end." Dont you get the feeling that Mormon leader propaganda has the effect that even their BoM verses are subject to scissors being cut out if it doesnt fit with what their leaders say? | |
5. | "Eternal life" is redefined to be an exclusive term that applies to temple Mormons ONLY! "Eternal life" is thus reserved for legalistically abiding Mormons ONLY. "Eternal life" does NOT = ALL living forever with Heavenly Father; 'tis ONLY applies for those who EARN exaltation...and "exaltation" is a Mormon by-word for becoming a god!Hence, to the Mormon, resurrection alone does not = eternal life. | Yes, Mormons believe that just about all people become immortal due to the resurrection. But "eternal life" is ONLY for those who live in the presence of Heavenly Father -- and become "gods" themselves (what Mormons call "exaltation"...To Mormons, "exaltation" and "eternal life" are interchangeable terms...but "eternal life" and heaven-as-a-residence for non-Mormons are not interchangeable terms..."eternal life" is ONLY for Mormons! * Eternal life is a term which always means exaltation, when used in the Scriptures (John 3:15; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:2; 2 Nephi 2:28; D&C 5:22; 18:8; 131:5; 138:51; Moses 1:39). (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p. 88) Sub-title: WHAT IS EXALTATION? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives. (Older 1970s version, p. 289) * Exaltation is a synonym for eternal life. Exaltation comes only to those who inherit the highest degree within the celestial kingdom it consists in the continuation of the family unit throughout eternity; it is the type of life that is lived by our Heavenly Father. (Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrines and Covenants, 2:85) * Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge, and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 302) * Eternal life In fact means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God. (Milton R. Hunter, an LDS Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 11) * Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 53) * Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in Gods presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection. (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:479 Quote for resurrection alone not = 'eternal life': * resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God we need His grace to purify and perfect us after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23). (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) | |
4. | Trusting in Jesus Christ and relating to Jesus Christ for the Mormon thereby only amounts to what your life MERITS. Yup. You're ONLY a cosmic Boy Scout! | The final quote in the previous row was:
resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God
we need His grace to purify and perfect us after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23). (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) Hence -- for MORMONS -- heaven isn't a gift...it's based upon "all you can do" and merits: * Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life (Lds apostle Robert D. Hales, Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets, Ensign (Conference Edition), Nov. 1985, p. 20) *
immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But ONLY THOSE who obey the fullness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life. (D&C 29:43-44)
it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ
they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fullness of the Father. THEY ARE GODS. McConkie, p. 237, 1979 ed. [My note: Of course, McConkie cites D&C 29:43-44
but these verses say no such thing
v. 43 actually says that immortality unto eternal life is given to as many as would BELIEVE
shifty McConkie
trying to pull a rabbit when no hat exists] * The
gift of eternal life
is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinance and covenants of the temple. (Lds apostle Russell M. Nelson, Divine Love, Ensign, Feb. 2003, p. 24 * "Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on MERIT -- through the faithful performance of duty - ONLY those who are WORTHY shall receive it." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:5) These citations are outright heresy taught by heretics! If you don't believe Mormons teach you have to "work" for eternal life vs. Jesus giving it to us NOW in a relationship with Him that starts now, then may I suggest you first read John 17:3 -- and then compare to these above citations from Lds leaders! For another thread on this topic, please see: what qualifies people to live with heavenly father for all eternity? (MormonISM - open)
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3. | If you qualify for Mormon full grown-up godhood status, you will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ haveall power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; and that they will receive prayers as well as worship, glory, adoration, etc. | Both the 2009 Lds Gospel Principles book -- see Exaltation (The Plan for Our Progression)-Mormon (OPEN)...and one who reaches out to Lds, Pastor Mark Cares, see As man is God once was; as God is, man may become. [Infamous couplet highlights Lds polytheism] ...highlight these five supposed "blessings" that temple Mormons ALONE are to receive: a. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62). (My note: And this is for TEMPLE Mormons only...which, right now, is only 15-20% of all Mormons!) b. They will become gods (see D&C 132:2023). (My note: See McConkie quote above as well) c. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase. (My note: "Elder Walker" does discuss this on Barbara Walters' upcoming special...as Lds think this is some sort of trump card of their 'gospel' that's attractive) d. They will receive a fulness of joy. e. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ haveall power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:1920). (Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; will receive prayers; worship, glory, adoration, etc.) | |
2. | You -- if you're a tithing married Mormon in good standing ONLY with the Mormon church -- get to not only be a 'god' -- but a god of your own world!!!!! (This, of course, includes eternal physical sex with either your wife or wives in order to propagate that world with 'spirit children') | Some Mormons deny that Lds teach that you "get your own world as a god." For the scoop, see Mormon Professors Confuse Doctrine and Rumor (especially note post #5 of that thread) Here is a sample quotation from a Mormon "prophet": To become like him we must have ALL the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an EARTH LIKE THIS ONE WE ARE ON and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. WE WILL HAVE AN ENDLESS ETERNITY FOR THIS." Source: Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48, as cited by The Mormon Churchs annual Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1978-79, p. 131 | |
1. | Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!! | When Mormons talk about eternal life & exaltation, they're not just talking about "heaven" What's the "rest of the story"? * Mormons believe that only their Melchizedek priests (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. (D&C 76:62) In the Mormon view of heaven, ONLY those entering into Mormon "covenants" and obeying fully Mormon laws get to live forever in God's presence: * Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessing--which is also called exaltation--comes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants (Source: Preparing for Exaltation Teacher's Manual, p. 4, 1998) * Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in Gods presence and continue as families. (same source, p. 52) * Eternal life is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel continuing through the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678) |
I've noticed that many potential jurors really complain badly about the large amount of EVIDENCE being shown in these threads.
"I don't read Cut & Pastes", they announce; and then go on to render a verdict!
I compose and post a message giving my views, then others read that post and compose their replies, then I respond, until the subject has been thoroughly kicked around.
And I've tried to do that on some of the LDS threads.
But when the response I get amounts to the verbatim reposting of a lengthy canned tract that I and others have seen a hundred times before, then I think it's those responders that are not keeping to the intent of what a "forum" is.
BTW, I am not Mormon, and personally I think old Joe made it all up. But I don't take the existence of Mormonism as a personal affront.
Ok, thanks.
I find that mommonISM is affront to God Almighty, and beleive God when He says to call out false teachings and prophets, which is what exposure of mormonISM does, it calls the teachings out and exposes Joseph Smith (and the rest of the lds leaders) out.
Apparently it isn't the folks who don't know what a FORUM is; but those who don't like certain VIEWS.
It mattereth NOT how many times YOU or OTHERS have 'seen' the voluminous outpourings from official MORMON sources; but how those who have NEVER seen the things that MORMONism contains.
THEY are the ones who WILL appreciate all of the hard work that has gone into ferreting out the things that SLC wishes would remain hidden until the slimy grasp of deception has solidified around the soul of the unsuspecting.
I'm a 'professor'. (reply #28)
I do!
The object is to hit and run.....
It appears that he has...
No, no, NO!!
You'll NEVER make it as a MISSIONARY!
The object is to Bait & Switch!!!
It goes like this...
The BAIT: When you've finally got a sucker to listen to your spiel, you give 'em a BoM and then ask them to read it and then PRAY about it to see if it's true. (Since it's crammed FULL of KJV bible text; what ELSE could it be?)The SWITCH: If they come back with a YES answer; it'll be a LONG time before they find how that hardly ANY 'doctrine' of the LDS religious organization actually can be found in the BoM; but in OTHER writings that they do NOT ask the sap to 'pray about'.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/ted-haggards-crystal-cathedral/Content?oid=100742
“Haggard isn’t New Life’s only box of birds.”
2. The big, gay theater in the round. You’ve probably seen the outside of New Life Church on the news. It’s a testament to megalomania of Wal-Martian proportions. Jutting from the plains north of Colorado Springs just a few miles east of the U.S. Air Force Academy, it’s the only megachurch in Colorado Springs and cost $17 million to build. (What’s $17 million when you’re tithing 14,000 people at 10 percent of their income? That’s a cool $42 million per year if you figure the average person makes $30,000.) The exterior may be plain, but on the inside it’s a big, gay theater in the round!
Orlando
1971
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San Deigo
1988
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Yes, and if they don't think they've proved their point they copy their post and repost it again
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And in other news the libs have taken over Huntsville,Utah where they are sickened, just sickened at the dis Obama in their parade. LOL
It may have escaped your notice, but the information posted on these threads is not necessarily geared to reaching those of you that have seen it "a hundred times before". There are ALWAYS new FReepers and lurkers on these threads, that given the Romney candidacy are interested in learning about mormonism. We see new names posting on these threads daily. Your definition of the term "forum" seems to fit that of those who would wield the sword of censorship quite broadly.
So, good advice would be to you that if you are offended by the methods used on these threads just either scroll past the information you have seen before or avoid entering a thread that refers to mormonism. It appears that you have learned all you care to learn about the sect.
HMMmm...
Yes; we MORMONs WOULD have CENSORED it!
Yes; that IS upsetting when discovered!!
...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.
Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.
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