Then howbeit the Father has specific knowledge the Son does not (Matt. 24:36) , that the Father can confer authority upon the Son that the Son does not have (Matt. 28:18, John 5:22,27), that the Son could be seen but no man has seen God at any time.(John 1:18) and regards their nature?
John 5:26 says the Father has life in Himself but the Son did not until granted or given to him by the Father?
“And rather than the Son being a created subcontractor in creating all things, (Jn. 1:2; Col. 1:16) “all things” would include Himself, and in no place is creative activity ascribed to any created thing. Rather, “Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.” (Isaiah 44:24)”
Then those “all things” would have to include God the Father! and the holy spirit, too! Is that what you are saying?
“Then those “all things” would have to include God the Father! and the holy spirit, too! Is that what you are saying?”
Um, not exactly. John 1:3 contains an explicit escape clause for uncreated things, doubtless to cover the very contingency you are citing:
John 1:3 “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
He is clearly saying that any created thing was created by Jesus, logically excluding Jesus as a created thing. Else he would have had to create himself.
Greetings,
SR
These objections have all been faced, and i see them as based upon a failure to consider all that Scripture teaches on the subject, or an unwillingness to allow the conclusion of such.
Then howbeit the Father has specific knowledge the Son does not (Matt. 24:36)
This ignores that in His incarnation Jesus, while not thinking it to be “robbery to be equal with God, made himself [did empty himself], of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” (Phil. 2:7)
Therefore Jesus, while being God manifest in the flesh, (1Tim. 3:16) was yet restricted to being in one place at one time, but which He is not after His resurrection.
As the Father as the head determines what will be part of the exercise of His own authority, as well as that of the Son, so He determined what truth the Son, as the Word of God, would flow through Him to man, and which does not militate against Jesus being God as ontologically one in being with the Father.
Submission in the Godhead does not mean one is a created being. Even if not completely analogous to to the Triune nature of God, a husband and wife are one flesh, and the fact that the wife is in submission to her husband in position and function does not make her a different species than man.
that the Father can confer authority upon the Son that the Son does not have (Matt. 28:18, John 5:22,27),
The authority here refers to position and function, and again, this objection proceeds from the untenable premise that submission mean inferiority in nature, which would mean that employers are supermen versus employees. But as in the above example, there is complementarity and interdependence, so that the Father Son and the Spirit work together, and would not be the God of the Bible apart from each other.
that the Son could be seen but no man has seen God at any time.(John 1:18) and regards their nature?
A simple view of this would find Ex. 24:10,11 “they saw the God of Israel” to be problematic, but as there, “seeing” refers to seeing God in less than His completely unveiled glory, "..dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see," (1 Timothy 6:16) and thus the God they saw was veiled, as Christ was, taking upon him the form of a servant.” (Phil. 2:7) of the seed of Abraham. (Heb. 2:16)
Yet in a real sense the elders of Israel saw God and not a created being, and likewise even more so he that seeeth the Son seeth the Father who sent Him. (Jn. 12:45)
And here is one of the most subtle but powerful revelations of whom Christ was. For in response to the important question, “who is this Son of man?,” (Jn. 12:34b) the Lord exhorts them to “walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you,” and the Holy Spirit invokes (in its fulfilled sense) the prophecy given to Isaiah 6:10, after he had seen the thrice holy LORD in His glory, (Is. 6:1-5) "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. " (John 12:40)
He then declares, “These things said Esaias, when he saw His glory, and spake of Him,” (v. 41) referring to Christ as the One whom Isaiah saw. And therefore the Lord "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. " (John 12:44-46)
This is just one of many texts in which the being called God is identified as Christ, but which is revealed to those who will walk in that Light.
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. " (1 John 5:20)
John 5:26 says the Father has life in Himself but the Son did not until granted or given to him by the Father?
This refers to function, to the Son being commissioned to give life to whom He will, “And I give unto them eternal life,” and thus “I and my Father are one,” (Jn. 10:28-30) which is another uniquely Divine attribute, and rather than the Son being just a special angel- functionary, He was Divine by nature, and in function and nature is called "My Lord and my God." (Jn. 20:28)
And leading up to Jn. 5:26 is " John 5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” The offense here was the use of idios patēr, literally, “His own [or peculiar] Father,” (as in Rom. 8:32) which distinguished Jesus from being a man (who did not refer to God as such) and instead infers unique ontological decent, the Word who was “in the bosom of the Father,” (Jn. 1:18) who proceeding forth from Him to manifest the invisible God.
“And rather than the Son being a created subcontractor in creating all things, (Jn. 1:2; Col. 1:16) “all things” would include Himself, and in no place is creative activity ascribed to any created thing.”
Then those “all things” would have to include God the Father! and the holy spirit, too! Is that what you are saying?
No, the argument is that if Jesus was created, then He would have created Himself if He created all things, while God says He did so by Himself, (Is. 44:24) referring to the Father, Son and the Spirit, as in “Let US make man in OUR image,” (Gn. 1:26, which plurality is used only 6 times in the Old Testament in referring to God, before the “royal we” is seen used). And thus in Is. 6, in which John has the LORD referring to the Son, the same asks, “who shall go for US?” (Is. 6:8)
The question is, how can Jesus be called God, and “the Almighty,” (Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rv. 1:8) among other Divine titles, and receive unmistakable universal worship (not simply obeisance), in union with the Father, (Rv. 5:11-14) as well have powers and titles ascribed to Him which were ascribed to God, if He is only a created being?
Arguing the Greek in Jn. 1:2 means “a god” creates more problems than it solves, as does ascribing uniquely Divine attributes, titles and glory to a created being. No created being did or could make these claims, and which would invite worship of such, and these ascriptions would makes a mockery of texts which forbid that if the Holy Spirit was not revealing the Son to be God by nature. Thus the Jews rightly perceived the import of the Lord's claims to that effect, but being blinded, they “crucified the Lord of glory.” (1Cor. 2:8)
"For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord? " (Psalms 89:6)
"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.” (Hebrews 1:7-8,10)
And as said, this is covered more extensively here.