Posted on 07/02/2012 6:30:14 AM PDT by Cronos
I want to thank Archbishop William E. Lori for reminding me once again why I'm an ex-Catholic ("Fight for freedom," June 27). With the so-called "Fortnight for Freedom," the church leadership is deliberately and cynically using a mixture of patriotism and religion in a blatant and manipulative attempt to influence the outcome of the upcoming elections.
I can't seem to recall any recent news about Catholic churches being bombed in the United States or attempts to bar American Catholics from attending mass. I do know that the Catholic Church has been using its "religious freedom" for decades to aid and abet child abusers, to recently attack nuns in the United States who are at the forefront of what used to be one of the church's primary missions to aid and comfort the poor and needy, and that the American church has over the past few decades formed an alliance with some of the most strident and politically active right-wing religious groups in the U.S. Archbishop Lori even received an award in May from a coalition of some of those groups.
I am proud to be an American, and I am a strong supporter of the Bill of Rights. I support freedom of religion, and I support freedom from religion. And, at this moment in time, I am also very proud and happy to be an ex-Catholic.
Sandy Covahey, Baltimore
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
“Your dismissal of sexual active popes as not duly elected unnamed popes , and spurious unprovable charges against Luther (as if he our faith), and your reliance on argument by assertion has again exampled why i have ceased attempting to pursue meaningful exchange with you, as one rejected even by your own.”
~ ~ ~
You aren’t stating what I said and Your last sentence is
false too. I am not rejected by my own if you’re trying to say Catholics trouble maker only Protestants who reject the faith and their own prophets! To your loss. Obvious, not one Protestant or fallen away Catholic replying to this thread can come up with a rebuttal to the message given Kevin Barrett. Silence, it was one paragraph! Another no
answer was on Romans 2:13 and James 2;24, both contradict Luther’s “Faith Alone.”
Recall, you brought the subject up sharing...
“And yet you have the List of SEXUALLY ACTIVE popes”
I replied:
“everyone is a sinner, so what” and a few Popes were not true Popes. Most likely the same popes you accuse of being sexually active. Are you free of all sexual sin in your life, it’s been a pure chaste life for you? See the weakness of your protest.
If you believe one of these, Sola Scriptura, Faith Alone, Man is Completely Depraved, you are a FOLLOWER of Martin Luther, doesn’t matter the denomination/non-denominational of Protestantism that you are professing today.
and of course, the rest of the non-c crew will remain quiet. Anti-Trinitarianism is fine with them...
proof? remember that you asked for proof for my statements and I gave them to you, so now I courteously ask you to do the same...
if you have any thread to the contrary, let's make it simpler, specifically on Trinitarian issues, I would be grateful to see them.. thanks
To dismiss this difference as mere functionality while a correspondence in nature makes them one is no different than the analogy of husband and wife.
They certainly share the same nature with different functions but in what sense are they one?
In the same sense that Jesus said that seeing him was seeing the father and that he and his father were one.
“As the Father as the head determines what will be part of the exercise of His own authority, as well as that of the Son, so He determined what truth the Son, as the Word of God, would flow through Him to man, and which does not militate against Jesus being God as ontologically one in being with the Father”
Then the question arises who else would share this nature in what is now described as a hierarchy of knowledge, authority, ability, function. The angels with their various functions?
What you've described is God, the Father with His son acting at his behest and direction as his agent.
How that would make Christ God is unclear.
“The authority here refers to position and function, and again, this objection proceeds from the untenable premise that submission mean inferiority in nature, which would mean that employers are supermen versus employees. But as in the above example, there is complementarity and interdependence, so that the Father Son and the Spirit work together, and would not be the God of the Bible apart from each other.”
Only if God is a committee.
The Scriptures cited do not discuss submission but specific abilities and authority flowing one way, from greater to lesser.
He makes no argument that requires rebuttal, he has no authority save the authority granted by the proprietor of the RC Latter Day Prophecy Deli. His words and the words of the rest of the fake prophets posted are just mere slices of rotten baloney, food for the foolish. To name this rot prophecy shows an ignorance of real prophets and voids the arguments of the server of the baloney. Since if one can't discern rotten food, why should they be trusted to discern true spiritual food.
The NAB translates Psalm 45:6 a “a god” and in a footnote explains that the king was called a god since he was a representative of God and that Paul applied the Psalm to Christ.
On John 1:1-3.
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God”.
First the use of caps is the translators choice and all sorts of arguments made for treating what should be an indefinite “a god” as the definite “God”.
“Trinitarian theory allows God to be presented in human form through the Son. Each time he is, we understand that to be the Son, and the natural role of the Son, to be the perfect expression of the Father. Hence no problem with the exchange between Jesus and Philip.”
Does “Trinitarian theory” allow the Father to be the Son?
Colwell’s Rule, quantitative vs. qualitative, Etc. but most translations follow the AV and the translators own bias.
“His words and the words of the rest of the fake prophets posted are just mere slices of rotten baloney, food for the foolish. To name this rot prophecy shows an ignorance of real prophets and voids the arguments of the server of the baloney. Since if one can’t discern rotten food, why should they be trusted to discern true spiritual food.”
~ ~ ~
Hi, Kevin isn’t Catholic, the fact is he is Protestant.
SAME response of “false prophet”, fifth time now, you all still will not reply to what is FALSE in the message.
What happened to sentence by sentence explanation and rebuttal?
I would smile if it wasn’t so serious. Even a debating person by profession (lawyer) runs away. Pick and chose, remain silent about certain verses (James 2:24, Romans 2:13 to name two) because they show the lie, the heresy of “Faith Alone.” The stubbornness, unwilling to change when you’re shown the Truth.
Kevin also heard from Our Lord, about the lie of a “pre-trib
Rapture.” Taking up your cross (includes Tribulation), you offer up your sufferings as Our Lord did and we all die as He did NOT skip death and get taken to Heaven.
Kevin’s website: http://hearhisheart.wordpress.com/
an excerpt fro the April 1, 2012 message:
Oh hear Me, My people. Why do you listen to the hirelings and false teachers and prophets? Did I not say in My word that not all that say to me ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, save those that do the will of the Father who is in heaven? Then why do you still go about doing your own will and tell yourselves that you are My bride? My people, you have been lied to by the enemy of your soul. Seek Me in these things. Surely I will reveal My truth to you. I love you, My dear children, and it is My desire that each of you share My throne with Me. But unfortunately only a remnant shall overcome. For too many have listened to the lies told by the FALSE shepherds and prophets. They speak of how you each are already cleansed and adorned in righteousness simply by your BELIEF on My name. These are all lies, My people. For does not My word say that he who DOES righteousness is righteous? Yes, My people, you are made righteous by your faith in Me, but it is FULLFILLED BY YOUR OBEDIENCE to My voice. IT IS NOT IMPUTED TO YOU BY A ONE-TIME CONFESSION OF MY NAME. Oh, My people, you have been lied to. Read My word for yourselves. Why listen to those that fatten themselves by fleecing My sheep? I have not sent many of the shepherds that are out there. They have sent themselves for their own glory and their own profit. Oh, My people, did I not say in My word to judge them by their fruit? Then where is the fruit, My people? Oh, but those that have itching ears care not about the fruit. They want to be told all is well and that they shall PROSPER if they simply believe on My name and My promises. Lies, lies, lies, I tell you.
Every day, God is helping our brothers sisters come to
the Truth. Another Protestant message from Heaven. There is one end time, not one end time for Catholics and another for Protestants. The Remnant is Roman Catholic. The Great Warning will reveal this. God wants everyone (non-Christians also) to believe all He has revealed.
~ ~ ~
New Upon You - Get Ready
July 4, 2012
I am known by you, I am not a stranger. Prepare yourself to hear My word, PREPARE YOUR HEART FOR TRUTH. In a little while it will be over the waiting will be no more. Your life has been a battle, a preparation for what is ahead. Know that you have been noticed, know that you have been seen. Don’t loose hope or think its time to throw in the towel. The time is now the battle is hot, but I Myself will uphold your arm in this battle.
Though you are weary and at times it seems that there is nothing left to redeem. I bring dead things and give them life, I pour water in the desert lands. You are that flower that sprouts even when everything seems barren. You are the well that I want to use to refresh many. Be filled and refreshed by my spirit I am getting ready to use you for that purpose that you were created for.
Behold that NEW THING that I promised is upon you, the season of the former and latter rain. Prepare to be refreshed prepare to be fed. Then you will be ready to be poured out for many. For your appointed season to birth is upon you. Expect the labor pains, expect TO LOOSE SOMETHING’S THAT YOU THOUGHT WERE CONNECTING YOU TO ME TO BE CUT FREE. (yes, the heresies -stpio) You must die to the former life and see that as you enter this NEW season that this NEW birth is even greater than the former. You are about to leave that dark place that you were hidden in, your place of growth, your place of development. THOSE VOICES THAT YOU HEARD WILL BEGIN TO MAKE SENSE THEY SPOKE TO YOU, now you will begin to see and connect voices to people. People connected to your new season. As you are birthed into this new beginning you too will birth, great things.
The darkness of your current situation will give way to the light of THE NEW. Don’t be a breech birth trust me, I will be at your birth and grow you up, for the next phase in your life. Let me cradle you, challenge you, grow in wisdom and stature in favor with Me and man. You are born for such a time as this, this is your season. The LIGHT IS COMING GET READY.
http://www.restoringlifefoundation.org/
Excellent rebuttal, counselor! Good job. Thank you.
If history is any clue, I doubt even when I do provide examples, they will be accepted. But, just so you can stop making false statements about my posting history, here are the few I found just since last MONTH! (Not including the multiple ones already on this thread):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2891087/posts?page=1062#1062
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2891087/posts?page=384#384
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2894951/posts?page=284#284
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2885096/posts?page=949#949
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2885096/posts?page=987#987
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2885096/posts?page=1002#1002
The above thread was me arguing AGAINST the false doctrine of faith plus works for salvation. Ironically, it was with the very same FReeper you referred to concerning the trinity. More ironical is he agrees with Catholicism on this issue.
Since this is only a quick search of my own recent posts and not from any other FReepers who are non-c, I disagree that you CAN make a blanket assertion that "we" care more about disputing Catholics than we do the truths of the Christian faith. I also will not spend more time chasing after your demands for proof of something I KNOW I have done and I am NOT alone in doing this. Your implication has been proven wrong - repeatedly - and can and should be viewed as the pathetic pleadings of someone who may be suffering from a persecution complex. I will not hold my breath waiting for an apology, though.
“As well as his unsubstantiated spurious charge as to what Luther taught, which is another example of the simple-minded willingness to believe anything that sounds good to Catholics.”
~ ~ ~
Fancy words like “spurious”, sounds kind of prideful, it
is better and helps in understanding to write simply.
Here’s the quote you asked for...
Luther came up with “Faith Alone” and “Bible Alone”, both from his mind not God.
“Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.”[57]
[57] Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107.
But boatbums, the bias of being a fallen away Catholic?
“Faith Alone” is a lie. This false teaching didn’t come
along until 1517. Luther was not so holy. Actually, not at all and he came up with “Faith Alone” ~~!!
Explain two verses brother, James 2:24 and Romans 2:13?
You were given the “jewel” and soon everyone in the world
will be given this gift by God, hoping everyone accepts it.
You should be reasonable and see things my way because if you don’t it’s an ATTACK!
Various Romanists since the days of Luther and even until today have alleged that he took liberty with Scriptures and showed scant regard for the sacred text. For example they alleged that Luther frivolously added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 in his German tranlsation of the New Testament(1522) so as to read "justified by faith alone" instead of "justified by faith". In reply, Luther in his Open Letter on Translating (1530) lashed out at his accusers. He was peeved by the fact that they rallied against his translation, while at the same time utilizing it for their own new translations. One of the Luther's papal critic who did this was Hieronymus Emser, the most ardent literary opponent of Luther. After lashing out at his papal opponents, Luther actually went on to give a detailed explanation of why he uses the word “alone” in Romans 3:28. He gave two reasons:
The first reason Luther gave - "“I know very well that in Romans 3 the word solum is not in the Greek or Latin text — the papists did not have to teach me that. It is fact that the letters s-o-l-a are not there. And these blockheads stare at them like cows at a new gate, while at the same time they do not recognize that it conveys the sense of the text — if the translation is to be clear and vigorous [klar und gewaltiglich], it belongs there. I wanted to speak German, not Latin or Greek, since it was German I had set about to speak in the translation..So much for translating and the nature of language. However, I was not depending upon or following the nature of the languages alone when I inserted the word solum in Romans 3. The text itself, and Saint Paul’s meaning, urgently require and demand it. For in that passage he is dealing with the main point of Christian doctrine, namely, that we are justified by faith in Christ without any works of the Law. Paul excludes all works so completely as to say that the works of the Law, though it is God’s law and word, do not aid us in justification. Using Abraham as an example, he argues that Abraham was so justified without works that even the highest work, which had been commanded by God, over and above all others, namely circumcision, did not aid him in justification. Rather, Abraham was justified without circumcision and without any works, but by faith, as he says in Chapter 4: 'If Abraham were justified by works, he may boast, but not before God.' So, when all works are so completely rejected — which must mean faith alone justifies — whoever would speak plainly and clearly about this rejection of works will have to say 'Faith alone justifies and not works'. The matter itself and the nature of language requires it."
The second reason Luther gave - “Furthermore, I am not the only one, nor the first, to say that faith alone makes one righteous. There was Ambrose, Augustine and many others who said it before me.” Surprisingly, even the Roman Catholic Biblical scholar Joseph A. Fitzmyer agreed that Luther was not the only one to translate Romans 3:28 with the word “alone.” Ironically, some Catholic versions of the New Testament also translated Romans 3:28 the same way Luther did. The Nuremberg Bible (1483), “allein durch den glauben” and the Italian Bibles of Geneva (1476) and of Venice (1538) say “per sola fede.” Some facts are indeed stranger than fictions.
True! It never seems to occur to some that part of the deal with participating on open Religion Forum threads is that your beliefs may and will be discussed and even challenged. The trick is to NOT take things personally nor to MAKE things personal. I think you do a good job with respect to these rules and it is appreciated.
I know that you have done so, however, the history is a tad spotty regarding consistency.
I'd like to know what you mean by "demonstrably non Christians".
We may begin with non Trinitarians, and continue on to others who may or may not have a belief in the Trinity, but who have rather, shall we say, odd ideas of Jesus, God, Christianity as a whole, including its origins and developments.
If, for example, a Jewish person disagreed with a Catholic's contention that the world was created over millions of years and that Darwinian evolution is true rather than believe God created the world in six days, as Scripture says, then, yes, I would side with that Jewish believer against the Catholic because I agree that God DID create the world in six days.
Going back to those threads, what is a day? 24 hours? Not in most of the world's history, you know. Actually, a standard day is NOT 24 hours, exactly. That's why leap year was created and why we had to adjust the atomic clocks a few weeks ago. Look it up. The length of the day has changed significantly. In experiments where individuals are deprived of light and external stimuli, the natural circadian rhythm is almost 25 hours, not 24. That says that formerly Earth's day was 25 hours. Go back in time; is it possible that the day was formerly what is now months, years, centuries, millennia? The problem is in the term 'day'.
Calling such opposition a "cabal", as if we were all some members of a secret society bent on intrigue and conspiracy, I would say is just silly. Just like labeling people "harpies" or "losers", it only shows the user of those names is riled up and unable to present a well-thought out response and seeks to wound in any way he can. It is quite transparent when that is going on and I hope it can be overcome.
I have never labeled anyone on FR a loser that I can think of. Harpies on the other hand, I think was rather imaginative, as well as descriptive.
I've said this before and I will do so again, I see these threads as opportunities to spread the Gospel and reach people for the truth. It is also like having a Bible study every day I can join in and it edifies me as well. I thank God we have this forum in which to share our thoughts, hopes, needs and blessings and I pray Free Republic will continue to be there for us all.
May God continue to bless JR in all of his efforts.
I have noticed your absence and missed you, believe it or not! I hope all is going well with your job and the family is healthy and happy. Have a good night.
Thank you very much and offer the same prayer for you. Overall we are well and the job is going well. However, I have suffered a major blow personally; I trust in God and pray that He will see me through.
Likewise yourself and that’s what makes FR an attactive spot to have a civil discussion. Cheers!
Shall we call it selective opposition?
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