Without supporting whatever Rev. Mohler said, I feel constrained to remind you that Michael Voris's rant demonstrates a typically unlearned position in which he refers to Baptists as Protestants. Baptists most emphatically are not Protestants, and every Roman Catholic and Protestant ought to be taught this.
Baptists are not Protestants=Reformers and this is why:
If one wants to emerge from ignorance of what baptists are, and have been, since the day the first Church of The Lord Jesus Christ was initiated by Christ's command to be assembled at Jerusalem, by Holy Spirit baptism on the 50th day after His Resurrection. Roman Ctholics have only existed as such when they were proclaimed as the Byzantine State Church by Constantine at Nicaea, about two hundred years later. The Protestants were those who were determined to reform the Roman Catholic church leadership abuses, and did not arrive until abot 1400 plus years after the Baptists. They were latecomers, not anything conforming to the distinctive marks of New Testament Baptist theology.
Here is a link to a site which clearly enumerate those BAPTIST Distinctives of which the following is a summary:
o B-Biblical Authority
o A-autonomy of the Local Church
o P-priesthood of the Believers
o T-two Ordinances of the Church
o I-individual soul liberty
o S-saved and baptized church membership
o T-two offices of the church -- pastor/elder and deacon
o S-separation of church and state
Rev. Mohler's statement will be largely based on this excerpt from the site, and is Scriptural, in that:
"Every individual Christian has the liberty to believe, right or wrong, as his/her own conscience dictates. While we seek to persuade men to choose the right, a person must not be forced to into compliance, realizing that it is not always the larger group who holds the truth when, in fact, our heritage as Baptists has demonstrated the worth of every individual believer.
"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. -- Romans 14:12 (totally in agreement with the context)
Any one of these fully Scripture-based distinctives will completely separate the Baptist from any form of Protestantism, let alone the sacral society proceeding from the Roman Empire.
The reason these distinctives are not pointed out by other Christian religious forms is because these other forms would founder on considering truly Bivlical principles of organization seriously.
Now, just to make a point on personal interpretation of artificial contraception, my son and his wife are Independent Baptists, and my son is a Deacon of that church. At the outset of their marriage, they decided that they would not be telling God what they were going to do with their bodies, but determined to let Him decide. I now have 10 beautiful grandchildren, who have met with The LORD for family worship at the beginning of every morning. Then they go on about their duties in homeschooling and work.
His brother has five children, and my daughter (widowed) has four.
Let me challenge anyone who reads this reply come up with a better way to serve The Christ than as a Baptist, a Bible-believing and obeying immersionist.
Respectfully denying the authenticity of Michael Voris, S. T. B.
I know what authenticity is in this matter.
“Now, just to make a point on personal interpretation of artificial contraception, my son and his wife are Independent Baptists, and my son is a Deacon of that church. At the outset of their marriage, they decided that they would not be telling God what they were going to do with their bodies, but determined to let Him decide. I now have 10 beautiful grandchildren, who have met with The LORD for family worship at the beginning of every morning. Then they go on about their duties in homeschooling and work.”
~ ~ ~
Wonderful, your son and his wife are following God.
President/Reverend Mohler does not say this in his article, he can’t figure out, he knows what the Church teaches, (she stands alone, never changing on the Truth) but puts up an objection and in the end leaves it to others to figure out. Read his last sentences.
Without question, Baptists ARE protestants. What has been stated here is untruthful, and cannot be supported by history. The baptists were started, as a denomination, in early 1600’s by John Smyth. Therefore, baptists are protestants, as they are, in fact, arriving on the scene 1600 years AFTER Our Lord’s Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascension, as a part of the protest of and revolt away from the Roman Catholic Church. History IS.
From http://www.reformedreader.org/smyth.htm
John Smyth, 1570-1612
The earliest General Baptist Church was thought to be founded about 1608 or 1609. Its chief founder was John Smyth and it was located in Holland. Smyth’s history begins in England where he was ordained as an Anglican priest in 1594. Soon after his ordination, his zeal landed him in prison for refusal to conform to the teachings and practices of the Church of England. He was an outspoken man who was quick to challenge others about their beliefs but was just as quick to change his own positions as his own personal theology changed. Smyth continually battled the Church of England until it became obvious that he could no longer stay in fellowship with this church. Thus, he finally broke totally from them and became a “Separatist”.
In 1609, Smyth, along with a group in Holland, came to believe in believer’s baptism (as opposed to infant baptism which was the norm at that time) and they came together to form the first “Baptist” church. In the beginning, Smyth was on track with the typical orthodox church position; but as time passed, as was so typical, he began changing his positions. First, Smyth insisted that true worship was from the heart and that any form of reading from a book in worship was an invention of sinful man. Prayer, singing and preaching had to be completely spontaneous. He went so far with this mentality that he would not allow the reading of the Bible during worship “since he regarded English translations of Scripture as something less than the direct word of God.”5 Second, Smyth introduced a twofold church leadership, that of Pastor and Deacon. This was in contrast to the Reformational trifold leadership of Pastor-Elder, Lay-Elders, and Deacons.
Third, with his newfound position on baptism, a whole new concern arose for these “Baptists”. Having been baptized as infants, they all realized that they would have to be re-baptized. Since there was no other minister to administer baptism, Smyth baptized himself and then proceeded to baptize his flock. An interesting note at this point that should be brought to bear is that the mode of baptism used was that of pouring, for immersion would not become the standard for another generation. Before his death, as seems characteristic of Smyth, he abandoned his Baptist views and began trying to bring his flock into the Mennonite church. Although he died before this happened, most of his congregation did join themselves with the Mennonite church after his death.
Taken from:
A Primer on Baptist History
The True Baptist Trail
by Chris
Traffanstedt
MOHLER: "Well, a bit of both. Again, for an evangelical Protestant to respond to the papacy, we have to say that one of the problems is this critical claim to both temporal and spiritual power. And that is a very dangerous mixture. Who knows in what role he is speaking?" Larry King Live, 22 March 2000
"Conservative Protestants emerged as major players in the pro-life movement, standing side-by-side with Catholics in the defense of the unborn." R. Albert Mohler, Jr., 30 March 2004
"Most evangelical Protestants greeted the advent of modern birth control technologies with applause and relief." R. Albert Mohler, Jr., 5 June 2012
I know what authenticity is in this matter.
I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, cheap.
Baptists are historically descended from the Puritan movement in England and theologically from the continental Anabaptists. Both movements were Protestant.
“At the outset of their marriage, they decided that they would not be telling God what they were going to do with their bodies, but determined to let Him decide. I now have 10 beautiful grandchildren, who have met with The LORD for family worship at the beginning of every morning. Then they go on about their duties in homeschooling and work.”
Would to God that was the practice of all the born again believers. Temperance is the only birth control, besides celibacy outside marriage.
Thanks for your post, I always enjoy reading Baptist points of view (and by the way am a big fan and admirer of Albert Mohler..)
Your assertion about the Catholic Church not existing before the Nicene Council is, however, factually poorly resourced. It seems to show unfamiliarity with the outstanding Catholic leaders of the Church even earlier than thar, including
Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian (all 2 or more centuries before the Council of Nicaea, and all commemorated liturgically in the Roman Canon for nearly 1900 years).
To make a start in researching this, a good fellow to be aware of is Clement of Rome, an early pope who died in 98 AD, that is, before the end pof the first Christian century.
OK, so you've got Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Hermas, Tatian, Theophilus, Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Hippolytus; Caius; Novatian; Gregory Thaumaturgus; Dinoysius the Great; Julius Africanus; Anatolius; Methodius; Arnobius, Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius...
And many other pre-Constantinian sources of Catholic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, Liturgies.
A great deal of the documentation is now available online, at: Christian Calssics Ethereal Library.
If you come across any Baptists of the same period, I would appreciate a ping. I would read anything you have with interest.