Proof re: atonement lacking in Mormonist teachings:
#1 Christ's atonement covers our sin nature...something Mormons even deny that humankind has (a sin nature)
What do I mean by a sin nature?
Allow us all to filter our understanding thru the Living Word -- Jesus Christ: 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughtsmurder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (Matthew 15:19)
Our heart isn't simply corrupted by the sin we allow into our lives; no, Jesus says that it's our heart that spills over into enacted sin...
Let's go back to Jewish theological thought from a long time ago:
* Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:5) [Based on this verse, Joseph Smith & Mormons call the Psalmists a liar on this...they think the Psalms teaches falsely on this]
* Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward... (Psalm 58:3)
What people mix up is that they think the Garden happens all over again at some point in their life: something environmental tempts them & then they sin "for the first time." Until then, they think they're innocent. [Mormons teach that children are perfect angels until age 8...I guess all those children's temper tantrums are just done to help parents be better people -- and no other "sinful" reason]
Unlike Adam & Eve, people do not simply sin & then become sinful; they sin because they are sinful by nature. The symptoms are the misdeeds -- not the diagnosis itself.
People's spiritual nature is dead (Eph. 2:1), which the New Testament describes as being in bondage to sin (Romans 6).
Now, in contrast what does the Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasize? It teaches that men are subject to punishment for their own sins; their Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."]
IOW, not for Adam's sin nature that's been generationally passed down.
This, plain and simple, is heresy. And Mormons are heretics for denying all of the Biblical scriptures above.
#2 What is the other Lds "atonement" teaching that Lds conveniently ignore -- as taught by Lds "apostle" Jeffery Holland in the Mormon hierarchy?
Answer?
Well, God bless her, Greyfoxx39 posted this relevant thread a few years back:
ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
From this link, Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to ONLY to members of the Mormon church:
From that Holland message: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Notice from the above quote all that Mormons might "leave out" in a convo with you on this subject.
* The Mormon version of the atonement doesn't "take" minus your "obedience" and diligent command-keeping;
* And that people "are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they are baptized in his name...and confirmation into Christ's church...
Per Mormonism, what is the ONLY true church on the face of the earth? The Mormon church...no membership...no atonement (payment for your sin; at-one-ment reconciliation with the Father) for you.
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Snapshot of Joseph Smiths Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects |
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain] |
...which of all the sects was right must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG those professors were ALL CORRUPT | Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
...which of all the sects was right ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN | Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
Mormon church the only Christ-sanctioned church on earth: the foundation of this [Mormon] church the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth [Obvious scorched earth implication: All other churches are false and dead] | Lds scripture Doctrines & Covenants 1:30 |
Jesus is THE Spiritual Physician of spiritual physicians.
He didn't say jump thru these commandment & membership hoops, oh wretched spiritually infirmed one...oh, spiritual cancerous person, & then we'll talking about covering your sin.
No, God in Christ levels the playing field before the cross by undercutting any spiritual pride that presumes anybody from any religion doesnt need Him as our great physician ("It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick...For I have NOT COME to call the righteous, but sinners."--Matthew 9:12)
The atonement is for us unhealthy sinners...not just membership Mormons in good standing to collect a series of temple recommends from Bishop Romney & the rest of the Lds bishops...
We join with the apostle Paul in declaring the TRUE Gospel:
* But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)
* Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinnersof whom I am the worst. (1 Timothy 1:15)
* But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would BELIEVE in him and RECEIVE eternal life. (1 Timothy 1:16)
The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535541
Joseph Smith |
I consider Mormonism a cult, as weird and whacko as the Church of Scientology.
But I lived and worked in Las Vegas for many years (non-casino jobs) and have been a conservative my whole life and though I never had any friends who I would call “close friends” who are Mormon, I did have many Mormon friends, acquaintances and co-workers. And seriously, they always were on the up-and-up with me, always worked hard at their jobs, always seemed like good family people, always talked as if they were conservative voters, none of them were on welfare (that I knew of) and none of them ever tried to convert a Christian to their religion (that I saw).
So though I agree that the doctrine of Mormonism is beyond bizarre, and certainly not Christian, I have to judge the people of Mormonism from my experience and in my experience they are (on the whole) a bunch of good folks.
I’m not posting this to dispute anything either of you have to say here, and I understand your intention is a good one, to save people from believing in basically a garbage doctrine, but I just have to “bear witness” and tell you what I saw over a period of a couple of decades (and on-and-off, even longer).
Not trying to start an argument, just telling you my experience.
Since you started this thread, and Freeper ‘Elsie’ has posted about half of the 150 or so comments, I thought you two would be the best people to ask this question.
Since it’s clear you will not vote for Romney, who will you vote for? Or will you choose not to vote at all?
FYI - here’s a link I found containing what I believe is the best selection of all political parties who will be seeking the Presidency. Is there anyone here you plan to vote for?
http://www.politics1.com/p2012.htm
I will take a mormon like Romney over a christian like Obama or Clinton any day.
Mormons are the least of this country’s worries.
I love these pro-Obama threads.