The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants

Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why.....

We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.

While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.

The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.

Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.

Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.

Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.

Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.

One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.

The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.

In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.

Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.

The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.

People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.

Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.

Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.

Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.

Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.

If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.

Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.

Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.

Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).

What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.

Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.

Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.

There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.

First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.

While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.

Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.

The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.

Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.

Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.

The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.

No one replies. No one says a word. The disagreeing, misunderstanding, the ignoring goes on and on. So...

God is going to bring Christianity together and He tells
you how in prophecy and it’s written in Scripture. Maybe,
those who ignore prophecy so disbelieve God could do it, that it could happen...”soon.”

Somebody reply for Heaven’s sake. Revelation 6:16-17
concerns the Great Warning, the Second Pentecost...oh,
and happy feast day to you all today!

Seeeee....how the very words from Rev 6:16-17 are explained in the prophetic.

love to you all,

stpio

_ _ _ _ _

Apocalypse 6:16-17
And they say to the mountains and the rocks: Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of their wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?

GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN

June, 07 A.M.

The Secrets of Man’s Hearts

...My people lay aside your secret sins. Focus on your Jesus, not on this world. REMOVE the sins from your life now in the hour of mercy by the light of my spirit. ALL OF MANKIND WILL SOON HAVE MY LIGHT SHINE INTO THEIR SOULS. WILL YOU BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THAT DAY? OR WILL YOU CRY TO THE ROCKS AND THE MOUNTAINS TO COVER YOU AND TO TRY AND HIDE FROM MY PRESENCE? Better to be humble in my sight today than to wait until that hour. Take advantage of my mercies and graces today. For now is the acceptable time. Now is the day of salvation. Do not presume on my mercy. Cleanse your soul in my precious blood and make your soul acceptable in my sight today. The words of the Lord.

see page 42

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22505473/God-Speaks-Will-You-Listen

What you described above is not on Paul’s list of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:10. You want so BADLY to believe private
interpretation of Scripture. No way, it’s heresy.

CYC:
“If that is so then please, explain what discernment of spirits is, what did Paul mean?”

~ ~ ~

Hi, I didn’t forget you, you asked about the meaning
discernment of spirits. I don’t think it involves as you
said to metmom, the “ability of some individuals in the congregations to distinguish between true and false writings. (1 Cor, 12:10)”

In my own words, it is the gift to discern what is influencing you, the good or the bad.

“Discerning whether the good spirit (the influence of God, the Church, one’s soul) or the bad spirit (the influence of Satan, the world, the flesh) is at work requires calm, rational reflection. The good spirit brings us to peaceful, joyful decisions. The bad spirit often brings us to make quick, emotional, conflicted decisions.”

Ignatius of Loyola taught on the discernment of spirits.
St. Ignatius Loyola: Rules for Spiritual Discernment

FOR PERCEIVING AND KNOWING IN SOME MANNER THE DIFFERENT MOVEMENTS WHICH ARE CAUSED IN THE SOUL THE GOOD, TO RECEIVE THEM, AND THE BAD TO REJECT THEM.

You want

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of “making it personal.”

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

~ ~ ~

Count your Change wasn’t defending private judgment in his comment to metmom? Should I post the entire reply? It read that way to me, it wasn’t Catholic.

I then posted private judgment is not contained in the gifts listed in 1 Cor 12:10. I asked...list which gift please. CYC replied with the gift of the discernment of spirits.

So, we’ve been discussing.

Have you missed the personal attacks on Catholics here?
There’s a snide one in almost every post.

It’s not so bad. All you have to do is think like a bigot and refer to ALL Protestants instead of the one you’re arguing with, and the mod will leave you alone.

From my experience, it doesn’t matter how stupid, narrow-minded, or slanderous you are as long as you accuse them all of it.

Of course, that’s also why many of us Catholics don’t bother much with the Religion Forum.

I personally believe the Protestants here bash Catholics, without us even participating, because they convince themselves that vain thrill of self-righteous indignation is actually the Holy Spirit stirring in them. That way, they don’t even notice when God is ignoring them for sins any more subtle than “lyin’, cheatin’, or stealin’.”

I've NEVER said private interpretation was involved, that's a canard you've repeated several times here as though that lends support to the idea.

What I HAVE said is God's spirit was required just as Jesus said he would send to bring knowledge and correct recollection to the minds of the disciples. (John 14:26).

Some sort of internal attitude check is not the sense of diakriseis since Paul was pointing to miraculous gifts of tongues, prophecy, knowledge, wisdom.

At Hebrews 5:14 Paul uses the term diakriseis in the sense of discriminating one from the other, right and wrong teachings.

It was that ability to “discern spirits” that allowed Peter to detect Ananias’ lie and that of his wife. (Acts 5:1-10).

No private interpretation involved, it was God's spirit acting upon these persons.

Here's what I replied to MM.

“It is noteworthy that one of the gifts of the spirit Paul listed was the ability of some individuals in the congregations to distinguish between true and false writings. (1 Cor, 12:10)
Thus something like the gospel accounts might be accepted as part of the Bible canon immediately as they were quickly circulated while other writings like Jude's might take far longer but it through the operation of God's spirit that the cnon(canon) was set not the imprimatur of councils.

This same spirit of discernment would weed many false writings such the numerous pseudo-gospels and frauds such as The Infancy Gospels of James or Thomas.

With John's writings we have the completed canon to compare anything that purports to be scripture with and so that special gift of discernment is no longer needed as Paul foretold. (1 Cor. 13:8-13)”

I choose my words carefully so I only mean what I say and I've made a case for gifts of discernment by virtue of God's holy spirit of what claims inspiration (spirits) or truth.

Good testimony. Basically, a person will be born again when the Holy Spirit convicts him, and your conviction/conversion came as a result of that particular passage in John. It’s always interesting to hear how people realize that salvation is by grace alone — not “vain repetitions”, i.e., “Hail Marys”, and adhering to extreme legalism.

Our good friends are R.C., and live a frantic lifestyle being over involved in charitable events; they truly believe that doing good deeds will make Heaven more likely for them. When I mentioned Isaiah 64:6, that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags” in God’s sight, their eyes glazed over.

You’re right that it’s good to be free to fellowship where the Lord leads, and not be connected to a denomination. I’m basically Baptist (Baptist P.K.), but if a non-Baptist church in our area preaches The Word better than a foar-out Baptist church in the area, I’ll attend that other church. Being a born-again Christian is what’s important, not being part of a particular denomination.

God is going to bring Christianity together and He tells you how in prophecy and it’s written in Scripture.

True believers are already unified in the Spirit. Denominationalism (aka churchianity) is NOT Christianity. A one world religion is well, a one world religion, and it's headed by Satan and the FALSE prophet, not God.

Maybe, those who ignore prophecy so disbelieve God could do it, that it could happen...”soon.”

If the prophecies were from God, there'd be something to worry about for sure. But since they're not, there's no concern unless someone follows them.

It's not about church. It's not about religion. It's about a relationship with Christ by grace through faith so that NO ONE can boast.

Nobody needs to become a Catholic to be saved and be sure of it.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Romans 10:5-13 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

If you had said "I believe you want" or "It seems you want" you would be expressing your own mind and not reading the mind of another Freeper.

Also, for a statement to be "making it personal" it must be speaking of another Freeper, personally - not as a group.

Finally, the Religion Forum guideline is that when one Freeper in a sidebar has been warned, all Freepers involved in the sidebar should consider themselves warned as well.

I gotta forget prophecy states, the Remnant is Roman Catholic.

A whole church of supposedly 1.2 billion strong is a "remnant"??????

No.

And there's no Scripture to back that up either.

A prophet has to be correct 100% of the time of he or she is a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18:15-22 15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken.

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

"It's not personal or mind-reading when Metmom points to me and says Catholics don't know Scripture, because she's talking about ALL Catholics!

"Out damn spot!" The obsessive haranguing of Catholics and attempts by "PROTESTANTS" to provoke Catholics to anger and a censure of Catholics by the mods is akin to watching Scene 5 of Macbeth over and over and over again. If you recall the guilt over the murder of the King of Scotland has driven Lady Macbeth insane and she speaks that line while sleepwalking, trying in vain to remove an imaginary spot of the kings blood that she believes stains her own hands.

The most plausible explanation for the hostility towards Catholics is a deep and denied guilt over leaving the Church and a forced denial over any culpability for the apostasy. For all of the aggressive berating, chest beating and finger pointing what we are really witnessing is our Lady Macbeths driven to irrational discourse as they walk the midnight halls of the Religion Forum wringing their stained hands.

Such deeply troubled people, devoid of any visible Fruits of the Holy Spirit need our pity, our compassion, our forgiveness and our prayers.

Peace be with you.

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