Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Oh.......
my........
What unscriptural nonsense.
Unscriptural but not uninspired, the question is by whom?
Not much doubt. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
If a prophet is not correct 100% of the time, he/she is a false prophet. "Prophecies" such as those are so vague as to be meaningless and almost impossible to verify.
How convenient for those labeling themselves *prophets*.
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
Not knowing Scripture leads to error. Period.
The status of Mary is a mystery that presents a difficulty to many. She is who she is ONLY because He is who He is.
If you are indeed a believer in Scripture then you have to acknowledge Mary's unique presence with Jesus at essentially every step of Jesus' life and ministry is indeed Scriptural. She was the first Christian, the first evangelist. She was present at the Annunciation and at the meeting with Elizabeth and the unborn John the Baptist. She was present at the birth, the flight to Egypt and the return to the Galilee. She raised Him. She found Him teaching in the Temple when He was 12 and feared lost. She was at His side when He performed the first miracle at Cana.
She is referenced throughout His ministry, at the Last Supper, at His trial and scourging. She accompanied Him through the stations of the Cross, was at His feet when He was crucified died and was buried. She was there at the Resurrection and the first Pentecost.
We Catholics believe Mary was assumed into heaven and has appeared to the faithful on numerous occasions. In this context to state that Mariology is unscriptural only because it conflicts with Protestant theology is to deny Scripture and the rich tapestry of the Gospel. She knew Him first and loved loved Him first with the completeness that only a mother could. She was chosen by God. I trust His judgment.
Peace be with you.
If you know it's unscriptural, why would anything else matter? It doesn't and shouldn't.
Explain the 8000+ different Catholic churches first if you want to pretend only your brand has "unity".
Amen!
Catholics believe that because they are taught it, not because it is true.
In this context to state that Mariology is unscriptural
Maryology is unscriptural is any context.
is to deny Scripture and the rich tapestry of the Gospel.
Anyone not believing God's Word is the Final Authority is denying Scripture.
She knew Him first and loved loved Him first
Wrong God The Father did.
with the completeness that only a mother could.
We are ONLY complete in Christ.
I trust His judgment.
Judgement? Trust HIM, obey HIS WORD and not man made teachings.
Do you find it just a little bit odd that those who would have you reject the Canon of Scripture direct you to Protestant apologetic websites for "proof" of their reasoning? That is hardly an inerrant source on which to base a decision to reject the affirmed Word of God.
Continue to stick to the facts:
- The Deuterocanonicals were THE Scriptural source for the Greek speaking Jews of world in the first century, of which there were many more than there were Hebrew speaking Jews living in Palestine.
- There was NO single Jewish canon until sometime around the beginning of the 2nd century AD when the Council of Jamnia (if it ever really was held) met to address the growing Christian presence.
In addition to the Septuigent, there were also the Pharisee, Saddusee, and Essene canon, the later of which has been found to contain Hebrew versions of several of the Deuterocanonical books.
- Lastly, the "7" books were universally accepted as Canon until they were found to be in conflict with Luther's and "reformed" theology. Luther also tried to remove the Epistles of James (which he called an Epistle of straw) and Jude, but ran in to too much opposition.
Peace be with you.
Thanks for your interest.
“It appears the author at catholicbinder has gone from one error to another by substituting a tradition for God’s Word of truth. He writes:
“And here I am, now a converted Catholic. I came to realize that some souls that are severely troubled, such as my own, are given by Jesus to his Mother to help lead us back to Him. And for me that was the only way I would ever had found Him fully. For anyone who reads this work, I pray that the Holy Virgin Mary may also lead you as she leads all her children to the altar of her divine son where he is daily called down by the hands of the priest into the bread and wine in fulfillment of his promise that if you eat of His body and drink of His blood, you will have eternal life.”
~ ~ ~
What is the “higher” that Protestants do not want or
desire? The Holy Eucharist. The EUCHARIST is the summit
of the faith. In this same paragraph, Jesus states people will reject, even when I show them.
Believe instead CYC and everyone. You’ve heard ahead of time.
May 24, 2012
To Susan O’Marra, Protestant messenger, today.
Our Lord:
I say to you, look in the mirror, My Children, and see. See My reality! For I am revealed to you through the mirror of My Word. And if you will look into the mirror of My Word and ask Me to open it unto you, I shall open it new. I shall disclose to you those things that are true. Those things that have waited for their revealing, THAT OTHER GENERATIONS DID NOT WANT OR DESIRE, AND COULD NOT RECEIVE TO GO HIGHER. I say to you, My Children, you shall conceive, because you shall believe, and those that believe shall cleave to My Word, and My Word shall do it. For I am watching over My Word to perform it, saith the Lord. I am doing it in a manner and in a way that most of My People will not do and obey. I say to you, few, will look into My mirror and see My way. Because many do not yet want My way, but I cry out to you, My Church, everyday. Want My way! Look My way! Listen My way! Speak My way! Live My way! Hear My way! Obey My way! And everyday, more and more open to Me. I am your reality!...
“It appears the author at catholicbinder has gone from one error to another by substituting a tradition for God’s Word of truth. He writes:
“And here I am, now a converted Catholic. I came to realize that some souls that are severely troubled, such as my own, are given by Jesus to his Mother to help lead us back to Him. And for me that was the only way I would ever had found Him fully. For anyone who reads this work, I pray that the Holy Virgin Mary may also lead you as she leads all her children to the altar of her divine son where he is daily called down by the hands of the priest into the bread and wine in fulfillment of his promise that if you eat of His body and drink of His blood, you will have eternal life.”
~ ~ ~
What is the “higher” that Protestants do not want or
desire? The Holy Eucharist. The EUCHARIST is the summit
of the faith. In this same paragraph, Jesus states people will reject, even when I show them.
Believe instead CYC and everyone. You’ve heard ahead of time.
May 24, 2012
To Susan O’Marra, Protestant messenger, today.
Our Lord:
I say to you, look in the mirror, My Children, and see. See My reality! For I am revealed to you through the mirror of My Word. And if you will look into the mirror of My Word and ask Me to open it unto you, I shall open it new. I shall disclose to you those things that are true. Those things that have waited for their revealing, THAT OTHER GENERATIONS DID NOT WANT OR DESIRE, AND COULD NOT RECEIVE TO GO HIGHER. I say to you, My Children, you shall conceive, because you shall believe, and those that believe shall cleave to My Word, and My Word shall do it. For I am watching over My Word to perform it, saith the Lord. I am doing it in a manner and in a way that most of My People will not do and obey. I say to you, few, will look into My mirror and see My way. Because many do not yet want My way, but I cry out to you, My Church, everyday. Want My way! Look My way! Listen My way! Speak My way! Live My way! Hear My way! Obey My way! And everyday, more and more open to Me. I am your reality!...
They are figments of the imagination. There is only one Catholic Church. All Catholics, regardless of rite, agree on the tenets of the Nicene Creed which proclaims the Church to be three things; Holy, Catholic; and Apostolic.
In case you have forgotten, the Doxology of the Catholic Liturgy of the Eucharist, echoing Romans 11:36, spoken or sung by every Catholic priest at every Mass, declares; "Through Him, and with Him, and in Him, O God, almighty Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor are yours for ever and ever." And every Catholic from their knees responds: "Amen."
God Bless you.
Yes, let's:
- The Deuterocanonicals were THE Scriptural source for the Greek speaking Jews of world in the first century, of which there were many more than there were Hebrew speaking Jews living in Palestine.
The Jewish "magesterium" NEVER considered these extra-scriptural books as divinely-inspired. As the ones to whom were given the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2), it is only reasonable that what they consider the Old Testament canon, IS the OT canon. These disputed books were written AFTER the last book was accepted as the word of God. From the link http://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible, we learn:
Abel was the first martyr in the Old Testament from the book of Genesis, while Zechariah was the last martyr in the book of Chronicles. In the Hebrew Canon, the first book was Genesis and the last book was Chronicles. They contained all of the same books as the standard 39 books accepted by Protestants today, but they were just arranged differently. For example, all of the 12 minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) were contained in one book. This is why there are only 24 books in the Hebrew Bible today. By Jesus referring to Abel and Zachariah, He was canvassing the entire Canon of the Hebrew Scriptures which included the same 39 books as Protestants accept today. Therefore, Jesus implicitly rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture.
- There was NO single Jewish canon until sometime around the beginning of the 2nd century AD when the Council of Jamnia (if it ever really was held) met to address the growing Christian presence.
False. From the same link:
The Dead Sea scrolls provide no commentary on the Apocrypha, but do provide commentary on some of the Jewish Old Testament books. This probably indicates that the Jewish Essene community did not regard them as highly as the Jewish Old Testament books.
Many ancient Jews rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. 3 In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written.
In addition to the Septuigent, there were also the Pharisee, Saddusee, and Essene canon, the later of which has been found to contain Hebrew versions of several of the Deuterocanonical books.
Also false. See above.
- Lastly, the "7" books were universally accepted as Canon until they were found to be in conflict with Luther's and "reformed" theology. Luther also tried to remove the Epistles of James (which he called an Epistle of straw) and Jude, but ran in to too much opposition.
Blatantly false. Even many of the church "fathers" rejected the Apocryphal books as inspired Scripture. Again, from the link:
Many church Fathers rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture, and many just used them for devotional purposes. For example, Jerome, the great Biblical scholar and translator of the Latin Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture though, supposedly under pressure, he did make a hurried translation of it. In fact, most of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Along with Jerome, names include Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.
The Apocryphal books were placed in Bibles before the Council of Trent and after, but were placed in a separate section because they were not of equal authority. The Apocrypha rightfully has some devotional purposes, but it is not inspired.
You'll have to do better than fussing about my choice of sources if what they say is uncontested. It should be obvious that some things CAN be unbiased.
There never was anything akin to a Jewish Magisterium. There wasn't even a singly recognized governing rabbinical society or qahal. There were at least 5 different and competing groups that only agreed upon the Torah. None of the Deuterocanonicals are in the Pentateuch.
So if you are going to throw around terms like a Jewish Magesterium you better define your terms a little bet better and then explain why you have selected one of them and rejected the others. Expediency and backwards continuity beginning with the premise of the Reformation just won't cut it.
When you expect others to forsake the Canon and exclude a portion of the Revealed Word the burden of proof is on you and you better bring your A game.
Peace be with you.
I'm interested, right now as merely an object of curiosity, if you have proof of this claim. I'm not interested in debate at this time, so if you don't, I won't think/claim it is a "weakness" on your part.
The CARM article you have cited cites as its source of such a claim, "There are various divisions of the Hebrew canon. The Protestant Old Testament Canon contains 39 books while the Hebrew canon has 22 or 24. These are the exact same books as the Protestants have, but they are just arranged differently and some of the books are combined into one. For example, Kings is one book. There is not 1st Kings and 2nd Kings. Also, all of the 12 minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) are one book in the Hebrew Canon."
I either do not understand how this supports the claim above (if so, perhaps you could explain it to me) and/or find it unconvincing.
To be clear, I'm interested in knowing how the following 3 statements can be claimed and/or what the original (primary) source of such claims is/are: "Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture" and "Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha to be 22 books" and "In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written".
Again, I don't find the source cited on CARM to be convincing in this regard; it seems to be just a restatement of the original claim.
Thanks in advance if you find it,
“The Catholic church does NOT sit in Moses seat and that verse does NOT give that kind of authority to the Catholic church.”
~ ~ ~
You miss the reason for talking about the chair of Moses.
The chair of Moses is not spoken of in the Old Testament. Jesus speaks of it, which gives proof there are things to be believed that aren’t written down in the Old Testament or found in the New Testament.
Martin Luther’s Sola Scriptura -Bible Alone- is not true.
And you miss Jesus repeated statements that begin with *It is written....*
OT Scripture points to Jesus.
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