Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Hardly grilling. I am not as vain as some and will seek to find answers if I do not know the answer and would like to find out. Ask away.
Like why it allows child molesting priests to continue to serve as priests and represent Christ to the parishioners?
Do you know of any convicted child molesters in a court of law that still serve as priests? I don't.
Why hasn’t the Catholic church defrocked those priests? Why the mentality of *Once a priest, always a priest?*. when Catholics scorn OSAS?
See above.
Why serve communion to pro-abortion politicians? Why doesn’t the RCC enforce it’s OWN rules on its OWN congregants before throwing stones at others?
Do you guys serve communion to pro-abortion politicians? I'll bet that your denomination does.
Why doesn’t the Catholic church ex-communicate those who are in sin by supporting abortion and homosexual marriage instead of granting them Catholic funerals?
You mean the Kennedys? We don't know what went on between them and their confessors. Luke 18: 9-14. We see the ones even here of FR that hang out in the front and those who hang out in the back, thankful to be in the presence of almighty God at all, instead of loudly proclaiming their own salvation.
Why the double standard of expecting absolute perfection out of others and giving themselves a pass in their own corrupt and immoral behavior?
You keep saying that you were Catholic then say things like this. You must pardon me if I find it difficult to believe.
Or is it just too much a matter of *Do as I say, not as I do?*
You see?
Catholics who hold to double standards, giving themselves and their church a pass while condemning others for the same behavior are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Agreed. Same goes for others who misrepresent the Faith.
Physician, heal thyself.
Only with God's help. I cannot declare my own salvation.
Nobody owes you any answers as we answer to God for what we do, not men.
That is one of the most arrogant statements I have ever seen on FR.
You still don't know. Nice try but a epic fail.....
I am not ashamed of my religious beliefs. I have not abandoned the Faith for man-made doctrines, and been so ashamed that I cannot even tell anybody.
Even sick twisted John Travolta (who also abandoned the Faith) can openly speak to the cult that he joined.
"We ought to remain in the Church that was founded by the Apostles and continues to this day. If ever you hear of any that are called Christians taking their name not from the Lord Jesus Christ, but from some other, for instance, Marcionites, Valentinians … you may be sure that you have not the Church of Christ there, but the synagogue of Antichrist. For the fact that they took rise after the foundation of the Church is proof that they are those whose coming the Apostle foretold. And let them not flatter themselves if they think they have scriptural authority for their assertions, since the devil himself quoted Scripture, and the essence of the Scriptures is not the letter, but the meaning. Otherwise, if we follow the letter, we too can concoct a new dogma and assert that such persons as wear shoes and have two coats must not be received in the Church."
St. Jerome (342-420AD)
Very good. We must then agree to disagree. I disagree with your characterization of the Catholic Church as man-made. If you truly believe in the Bible and its content, then you must believe in the origins of the Church being in Christ.
Nobody leaves *the Faith* (capital *F*) because there is no such thing as the *Faith* (capital *F*).
Once again, I see the reason that people leave the Faith. It is like freedom. Unless you know that something exists, it is of no importance.
People leave the Catholic church, just as they leave other churches, but leaving a church is not abandoning faith, it is not leaving Christ.
Look at the testimony of those who have left the Faith.
Faith is a very simple thing. It's just taking God at His word and what He says is really is in spite of the fact that we can't see it.
As Pilate said, 'What is truth?' What is faith? Faith in what? Either you have faith in what God has taught us, or you have faith in what you come up with.
I suppose in one sense, you are correct. I left faith in the Catholic church for faith in Jesus and got saved in the process because it's faith in HIM that saves, not faith in the Catholic church.
Sure. Buddy Christ, at anyone's beck and call. We of the Faith know who is the Creator and who is the created.
Another valiant try and another crash and burn fail. Without the authority of and adherence to Scripture, anything goes. That explains why so many of the Catholic church doctrines are so off base.
I think that you might mean, rather, the personal interpretation of selected snippets of Scripture. How else can you explain the differences between, say, Luther and Calvin?
The Church's definition of something is meaningless. It's what the word of God says that matters.
I think that you ;might mean, rather, what you define for yourself today, at this moment, in this emotional state. Next hour or next morning, who knows what'll develop, right?
“So, no, your “interpretation” of this one verse, implying that it is speaking only of sins committed prior to baptism as being remitted, but future sins needing the application of the grace received at the performance of the Mass, is plain wrong. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ perfected FOREVER those that are sanctified - made holy/set apart. By His ONE OFFERING - forever, for all who receive Him as Savior.”
~ ~ ~
“The sacrifice of Jesus Christ perfected FOREVER those that are sanctified” -
boatbums, Your words are not true.
Heb 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:12
But this man offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God.
The second is from the Douay-Rheims Bible. Notice where the coma is placed, one coma comes after the word forever and in the DR, the comma is placed before the word forever. Sure changes the meaning of the verse.
Man’s sins are ongoing, past, present and future. Look at the sins of the world. Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross does not perfect a person. His death on the Cross does not sanctify you, His grace does.
How could you say “His ONE OFFERING” be only one time?
All Christians accept Jesus is our High Priest. Our Lord states His priesthood is everlasting in Hebrews 7:24. Our Lord continues to offer His sacrifice on Calvary to the Father for the sins of mankind in an “UNBLOODY” manner in Heaven and in the Mass here on earth, Our Lord is offered to the Father, the same, in an unbloody manner.
Baptism cannot remit one sin because it is not a blood sacrifice.
Without the shedding of blood, there is NO remission of sins.
Scripture is very clear that what Jesus is doing in heaven RIGHT NOW, is sitting at the right hand of the Father, interceding for the saints. He is NOT being continually offered for sin for all eternity. The effectiveness in the sacrifice is due to the death of the sacrificed, not the act or process of being sacrificed.
If Jesus is still in the process of being sacrificed, the sacrifice is ineffective because death has not yet occurred. It’s not the dying that works, it’s the death, past tense.
Thanks for the recommendation. I checked our library system, and it’s not there, but I saw it on amazon.com.
Galatians 2:20-21 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
My identity is Christ and being in Him, not the local assembly which I attend for services.
Since churches and religions cannot save, membership in them is meaningless. I've attended all kinds of churches from GARB (Baptist) to OPC to Pentecostal, and my identity is not with any of them because they don't save.
I suppose that if someone is of the school that churches save, this WOULD go right over their heads.
Romans 1:16-17 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Boatbums is referencing Scripture.
Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
That's a good description of Protestantism and its offspring. For them, it isn't really about the authority of Scripture or the adherence to Scripture. It's about the authority of their interpretations of Scripture.
It's what the word of God says, according to MY interpretation, that matters.
That's really what it comes down to.
You have really hit the nail right on the thumb. Very apt commentary.
It's all so obvious now that you've put it that way.
You need to brush up on your vacant knowledge of Mormonism. Your ignorance is showing again. While Mormons believe Jesus is the son of God, they do not believe He is God.
I pointed out quite accurately that your definition of Christianity includes all these cults. While we do agree that the LDS are a cult, we do not agree on the idea that broken cults of men scattered about the landscape with names like 'Orthodox Presbyterian' actually follow the words of Christ, whereas Christians believe they really follow the words of the god in the mirror and whatever and however he interprets whatever snippets of Scripture that happen to waft by this evening. Tomorrow, all bets are off...
Big difference.
Yup.
Now you have me perplexed. I thought you said that you are a former Catholic and present yourself as an absolute expert on all things Catholic. That being the case, how could you be so terribly mistaken on the very core of the Catholic Liturgy, the Epiclesis, in which the one Sacrifice is made present during every Mass. Please do clear this up for me, I would hate that some might think less of your integrity over a simple misstatement.
Peace be with you.
More applicable advise would have been:
"Let it be your first care not to deceive yourself." - St. Melito of Sardis (165-180AD)
“I checked our library system, and it’s not there, but I saw it on amazon.com.”
Suzi,
You can read it on line, I know, it’s not like having the book in hand. The way the author speaks about sanctifying grace, I read it in an afternoon.
http://www.archive.org/stream/gloriesdivinegra00scheuoft#page/n5/mode/2up
“The term “Sanctifying Grace” is not used in Sacred Scripture, but Sanctifying Grace is referred to in Scripture time and again, and Fr. Scheeben points out to us in this marvelous treatise many of the passages from the Bible that refer to this precious gift of God. Some Scriptural terms for Sanctifying Grace and its effects are “living water,” “born again,” “wedding garment,” “new creation,” “children of God,” “divine adoption,” “life,” “justice,” “just,” “charity,” etc. In The Glories of Divine Grace, the author speaks almost always simply about “grace,” but by this term he means “Sanctifying Grace,” which is “life,” spiritual life—the life of God imparted to the soul, which causes the soul to be (as we say) “in the state of grace.” This is to distinguish it from “Actual Grace,” which is a passing “help” from God to do a certain good thing or to avoid an evil thing. Indeed, the author speaks occasionally about Actual Grace, but for the most part in this book, when he speaks merely of “grace,” he is speaking about Sanctifying Grace. And when he speaks about “the glories of divine grace,” he is always speaking about Sanctifying Grace, the grace of God that gives life to the soul—supernatural life, the life of God.”
Mark,
Ephesians 4:5 states one lord, one faith, one baptism so it’s
logical, Jesus Christ established ONE Church, the RCC.
Protestantism broke away from the Roman Catholic Church.
God wants us all to believe the same, no Christian, Catholic or Protestant will disagree. Trust, God is going to make it happen.
The Great Warning may happen in 2013.
“I am not ashamed of my religious beliefs”.
Then why attribute such feelings to others?
“Even sick twisted John Travolta.......”
Who has paid out billions for it's sick, twisted priests?
“I am not ashamed of my religious beliefs”.
And yet the origin of so many of them are “man made doctrines”, that which you say others have fallen away to.
Hebrews 10:14
For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
“The sacrifice of Jesus Christ perfected FOREVER those that are sanctified - made holy/set apart. By His ONE OFFERING - forever, for all who receive Him as Savior.”
~ ~ ~
Then, boatbums added his personal interpretation of Scripture which is false.
You are not made holy by accepting Jesus into your heart at one moment as your personal Lord and Savior. OSAS, professing John 3:16 don’t make you holy either.
The “altar call” maybe for some a moment of conversion but it does not justify -save- anyone.
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