Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why.....
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs
The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.
The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.
Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.
Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.
Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.
Becoming Protestant
If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.
Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.
Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).
What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.
Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.
Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.
Lessons from the data
There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.
First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.
The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.
“How so? Isn’t this what the RC’s have been insisting on?”
~ ~ ~
Hi bonfire,
Many, many Protestant ministers will concede the Bible is
a Catholic book. Non-Catholics here won’t say it. Post
1224 was ignored, not a word said. Reject Prophecy, that’s
not wise. I’ll post it again. God’s plan, His desire
that we all believe the same, yes?
_ _ _
An excerpt, a translation, this is God’s plan, He is going
to show every person, all of humanity, just remember if you say no now. I put in CAPS two sentences.
Message to Darly Chagas
It is Coming the Hour, Correct Yourselves
Easter Sunday
April 8, 2012
Mary, Full of Grace:
...Pray, pray, pray for the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, for all the Clergy, for the religious men and women, for all mankind. Pray for the atheists and pagans, they think that God will give up from them, but He will not, for God nothing is impossible, He calls all until the last minute and gives opportunities, only will lose it those who do not want the Salvation of their souls, those who love more the sin than God. Pray for the Holy Church founded by Jesus Christ, ONLY WHO WANTS TO BE PART OF THIS CHURCH WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. For He, Jesus Christ and His Church is the Church founded on earth that is represented by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI so far. Does not advance for the world to want to undo this determination, ALL THE CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE, WILL FALL. But, does not advance anybody thinking that this will not happen. Who rules the world is only God and He bears witness to what He talks. Will survive the Foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ. He will gather His followers. Help the Holy Father at this time of great change in the world...
The feeling is basically mutual, negative and positive, but with no real positive for Rome being the supreme authority Scripture is. God be blessed.
It's called ‘handling the word aright (rightly dividing)’ to the end that we have what Paul called “epignosis”.
I can't match an ability to speak for most Christians and everyone in heaven so I'll go back to Salza, the “seer”s attempt to find in the Greek grammar ‘a new substance’.
“What are you saying brother, translation? I am serious.”
Thank you for reminding me. If you wish to know what I'm saying, reread the post.
“Where do you get the authority to say, sometimes Jesus is speaking literally in John 6 when He
says “flesh” and other times the word “flesh” is only
a symbol, a metaphor.”
It’s called ‘handling the word aright (rightly dividing)’ to the end that we have what Paul called “epignosis”
~ ~ ~
“E pig nosis”, excuse me?
Everything you...*know*...of Christ came from the Church.
“I can’t match an ability to speak for most Christians and everyone in heaven”...
~ ~ ~
Too bad CYC, most Christians are Roman Catholic.
No matter their belief here, Christian or non-Christian, absolutely, everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.
Juice and and cracker or receive Christ Himself, I know what I would choose.
Talk to me after the Great Warning, I’ll help you.
There is precious little on the internet about the Catholic church’s decision to withhold the cup, and a lot more of them patting themselves on the back for allowing it now.
Seems like they aren’t particularly anxious for anyone to know.
Since when? Which ones? Sources and stats? Otherwise, I don't believe you, because it's certainly nothing I've ever heard anyone admit to in all my years in non-Catholic circles. It's more like wishful thinking on the part of Catholics than fact.
Post 1224 was ignored, not a word said. Reject Prophecy, that’s not wise. I’ll post it again. God’s plan, His desire that we all believe the same, yes?
It was ignored because it was easily recognized as the tripe that it is. I certainly don't see a lot of other Catholics rushing to its defense either. For that matter, I don't recall seeing one Catholic post anything in support of your so-called prophecies. They've been ignoring them as the embarrassment that they are.
Another one gc. And more at the post.
“No matter their belief here, Christian or non-Christian, absolutely, everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.”
Thanks, stpio.
I needed the laugh tonight.
Wow, emo-kid!
“E pig nosis”, excuse me?”
No, I can’t see any excuse for such comments, perhaps it would be best if you tried serious.
Some other RCs believe we must convert to Rome before death to be saved, among other attempts to reconcile modern teaching of post secular force empowered Rome with historical papal statements that restricts salvation to formal members of Rome.
So there you have it, another RC who believes that everyone, Christian and non-Christian, will be in Heaven.
Actually, i think he disagrees with the Cardinal below*, in believing that somehow any who make it to Heaven will do so because they had a postmortem conversion, but without having to make their first communion, etc., perhaps in purgatory (but which presumes non-Christians were effectively Christian before they died), and which Ratzinger says may be involve “existential” rather than “temporal” duration (cf. Ratzinger’s book, Eschatology). It may be someone one experiences, but experiences in a moment.
*Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor, the head of the Roman Catholic in England and Wales recently expressed his hope and belief that God will save all people in an interview he gave for the Catholic Herald.
In an interview with The Catholic Herald this week, the Cardinal reveals his optimism for mankind as he sets out his vision of both heaven and hell.
Hell, he implies, may even be empty – conforming with Our Lord’s wish to save all souls. And heaven is a place where believers and non- believers may meet.
Q: And hell?
A: We’re not bound to believe that anybody’s there, let’s face it. But certainly in the Scriptures there’s a stark confrontation between heaven and hell.
But when Jesus talks about hell, it’s also exhorting people to repent, to turn away. It is in the context not of “you will be damned”, but “repent and turn to God”. I believe that hell exists and it is really the absence of God...
I cannot think of heaven without thinking of being in communion with all the saints and with all the people I’ve loved on this earth.
Q: It is sometimes said that there will be a separate heaven for Bavarians because they would not be in a state of eternal happiness if they had to share heaven with the Prussians. Will Catholics and Protestants be together in heaven?
A: I hope they won’t be separate. I think that the divisions manifest here on earth will be reconciled in some mysterious way in heaven. I’m not thinking just of Catholics and Protestants, but people of other faiths and people of no faith. We are all children of God.
Q: So we shouldn’t be surprised if we were to meet in heaven someone who was a Muslim or an atheist on earth?
A: I hope I will be surprised in heaven... I think I will be. www.romancatholicism.org/cormac-apokatastasis.htm
Pray for the Holy Church founded by Jesus Christ, ONLY WHO WANTS TO BE PART OF THIS CHURCH WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. For He, Jesus Christ and His Church is the Church founded on earth that is represented by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI so far. Does not advance for the world to want to undo this determination, ALL THE CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE, WILL FALL.So is this supposed "seer" saying only those formal members of the RC church will be saved, see heaven, "SURVIVE FOREVER"?
Isnt that against formal Roman teaching where all religions have a chance at heaven?
Pray for the Holy Church founded by Jesus Christ, ONLY WHO WANTS TO BE PART OF THIS CHURCH WILL SURVIVE FOREVER. For He, Jesus Christ and His Church is the Church founded on earth that is represented by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI so far. Does not advance for the world to want to undo this determination, ALL THE CHURCHES THAT ARE NOT SUBORDINATE TO THE HOLY FATHER THE POPE, WILL FALL.So is this supposed "seer" saying only those formal members of the RC church will be saved, see heaven, "SURVIVE FOREVER"?
Isnt that against formal Roman teaching where all religions have a chance at heaven?
Perhaps you are looking in the wrong place. You should be looking in the Bible.
"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." - John 6:51
The Church teaches that Christ is contained whole and entire under each species; so that whoever communicates under the form of bread or of wine receives not a mutilated Sacrament or a divided Savior, but shares in the whole Sacrament as fully as if he participated in both forms.
From this passage it is evident that whoever partakes of the form of bread partakes of the living flesh of Jesus Christ, which is inseparable from His blood, and which, being now in a glorious state, cannot be divided;
"For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. – Romans 6:9
With the exception of the last supper and His agony in the garden, Jesus makes no reference to the sacramental cup, but only to the Eucharistic bread, to which He ascribes all the efficacy which is attached to communion under both kinds, these being union with Him, spiritual life, eternal salvation.
Similarly, St. Paul, in his letters to the Corinthians, said:
"Whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord." – 1 Corinthians 11:27
Peace be with you
In an interview with The Catholic Herald this week, the Cardinal reveals his optimism for mankind as he sets out his vision of both heaven and hell.
Hell, he implies, may even be empty – conforming with Our Lord’s wish to save all souls. And heaven is a place where believers and non- believers may meet.
And what denomination ordained this guy and promoted him to level of bishop again?
I think this is another batch for YOUR list of what Catholics are free to believe or disagree with.
So much for unity of faith and fidelity to church doctrine.
Which proves nothing because those verses don’t give any justification for changing the way communion is celebrated.
Jesus gave the disciples BOTH the bread and cup.
The bread is for the remembrance of His broken body. The cup for His shed blood.
It’s very interesting that the Catholic church removed the part that remembers the blood sacrifice because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
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