Posted on 05/16/2012 3:48:19 PM PDT by wmfights
Romans 9:6 is a passage sometimes used by supersessionists to show that the church is explicitly called Israel.[1] This verse reads, “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel.” Some see in the first mention of “Israel” a concept of Israel that goes beyond ethnic boundaries. Thus, Paul is allegedly making a distinction between ethnic Israel and a spiritual Israelthat consists of all believers including Gentiles. This is the view of Ridderbos: “Even the distinction Paul makes within national Jerusalem between who is and who is not a ‘Jew,’ between ‘Israel’ and ‘those who are of Israel’ (Rom. 2:28ff.; 9:6), tends to a usage that denotes the believing gentiles as well and therefore the Christian church as such as “Israel.”[2] In reference to Rom 9:6–8 Wayne Grudem declares, “Paul here implies that the true children of Abraham, those who are in the most true sense ‘Israel,’ are not the nation of Israel by physical descent from Abraham but those who have believed in Christ.”[3] In his comments on Rom 9:6, Robertson states, “It is those who, in addition to being related to Abraham by natural descendency, also relate to him by faith, plus those Gentiles who are ingrafted by faith, that constitute the true Israel of God.”[4]
This verse, though, is not a supporting text for supersessionism as most commentators on Romans 9:6 acknowledge. As Murray has noted, Rom 9:6 is teaching that “there is an ‘Israel’ within ethnic Israel.”[5] Paul is not saying that believing Gentiles are now part of Israel. Instead, believing Jews are the true Israel. William Sanday and Arthur C. Headlam make this point:
But St. Paul does not mean here to distinguish a spiritual Israel (i.e. the Christian Church) from the fleshly Israel, but to state that the promises made to Israel might be fulfilled even if some of his descendants were shut out from them. What he states is that not all the physical descendants of Jacob are necessarily inheritors of the Divine promises implied in the sacred name Israel.[6]
Thus, the true Israelite is one who is a Jew ethnically and one has believed in Jesus Christ (see Romans 2:28–29). Romans 9:6, therefore, is not a supporting text for Replacement Theology.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Those who view Rom 9:6 as including believing Gentiles in the concept of “Israel” include: Ridderbos, Paul, 336, n. 30; Grudem, Systematic Theology, 861; C. H. Dodd, The Epistle of Paul to the Romans(London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1932), 155; Goppelt, Typos, 140; Ellis, Paul’s Use of the Old Testament, 137; and James D. G. Dunn, Romans 9–16, WBC, vol. 38b (Dallas: Word, 1988), 540; LaRondelle, The Israel of God in Prophecy, 121; Bright, The Kingdom of God, 226–27. Commenting on Rom 9:6, Origen stated, “For if the judgment respecting the ‘Jew inwardly’ be adopted, we must understand that, as there is a ‘bodily’ race of Jews, so also is there a race of ‘Jews inwardly.’” Origen, First Principles 4.21, ANF 4:370.
[2] Ridderbos, Paul, 336, n. 30.
[3] Grudem, Systematic Theology, 861.
[4] O. Palmer Robertson, The Christ of the Covenants (Phillipsburg, N.J.: P & R, 1980), 40.
[5] Murray, The Epistle to the Romans, 2:9.
[6] William Sanday and Arthur C. Headlam, The Epistle to the Romans, ICC (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1923), 240. See also Douglas Moo, The Epistle to the Romans, NICNT (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1996), 574. About Rom 9:6, Gutbrod writes, “We are not told here that Gentile Christians are the true Israel. The distinction at R. 9:6 does not go beyond what is presupposed at Jn. 1:47. . . .” Walter Gutbrod, “’Israhl, k. t. l.,” in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. 3, ed. Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965), 387.
Laughable. People are answering your question...they have told you over and over who the true Israel of God is. You just choose to ignore.
And you STILL don't address my answer to you. LOL.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)
So, you do not believe this scripture? That the promised seed is Jesus Christ?
Of course, if they did answer, and answer honestly, it would blow their demonic doctrine all to hell, so I kind of understand the avoidance, but I'm still trying to give you people a chance at redemption here. Help me out.
So you want to take a stab at it? Be the only honest replacement theologist on this thread? Who did God make the promises to that I have posted a hundred times on this thread?
The New Covenant is detailed in Deut. 29:4; 30:6; Isa. 59:20–21; 61:8–9; Jer. 31:31–40; 32:37–40; 50:4–5; Ezek. 11:19–20; 16:60–63; 34:25–26; 36:24–32; 37:21–28; Zech. 9:11; 12:10–14; Heb. 8:1-13; 10:15-18.
Can you tell me in which of those Scriptures the Church is mentioned?
No, there are many honest people on this thread who have give you the plain truth. Your fake premise that no one answers your "one little question" is plain false.
Your question has been answered many times and on many other threads as well.
Who are the people that God gave the promises of land, and salvation and the Redeemer living among them to?
No, that's not the meaning. Read it again. The promise was made to THE seed which was Christ.
Christ is the heir of the promise.
Those in Christ who is the heir of all things.
And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Was Isaac a Jew or Gentile? And was God lying when He called Isaac (a child) of promise?
When God calls Isaac a child of promise, was He speaking about a Jew or Gentile?
Isaac had faith. Thus he was a child of promise. You are mistaken to elevate ethnicity over faith.
Abel also was a child of promise before there were nations. He's in the same boat as are all people today, Jew or Gentile, who have faith.
Only being in Christ matters because He is the heir of the promise.
Well, that may be right if it weren't for those pesky promises that God made to someone that He would bring them back into a land that He gave them, that He would cleanse them, take their sins away, and there would be a Redeemer that would live among them.
Those are the mystery people that throw a death knell monkey wrench into replacement theology. And since that condition that is promised by God doesn't currently exist, then it must mean that that promise will be kept sometime in the future, right? I mean, God doesn't lie, right?
Do you have any idea who the mystery people might be?
Do you have a problem believing that there is a new heaven and earth in the future?
Do you have any idea who the mystery people might be?
Well, it seems like it's only a mystery to you.
Well, no. God says there will be a new Heaven and a new earth after the Tribulation and His millennial kingdom are finished.
I believe what God says.
Well, it seems like it's only a mystery to you.
Oh, just humor me. Who are the mystery people that God made the land and salvation and Redeemer promises to?
So you believe this to be future, right?
Who are the mystery people
Asked and answered...many times.
I think that's what I said.
Asked and answered...many times.
Can you re-post one of the answers? I must have missed it.
Try checking out post #88 for one.
Really...it's far from a mystery. But because you seem to have difficulty retaining here goes:
Christ is the heir, the recipient of the promise and all people of faith are co-heirs only because of faith in Him. He inherits the new Heavens and Earth and we and people from all tribes who have faith in Him are adopted children of the Father and will live in that land forever.
When did that happen? What is the name of our land?
That's why I asked if you have a problem understanding the new Heavens and Earth.
You don't seem to grasp the concept.
Where exactly does God say that His promises to the Jews have been cancelled? And if you can give me the Scripture where God has broken His promises to His chosen people, why do the promises still remain in the Bible? Why would God lie and deceive by leaving the promises to the Jews in the Bible knowing that millions and millions of people over the centuries would read those promises and believe them and have hope in them? Why would God do that?
And where is your assurance that the promise of salvation Jesus made to Gentiles hasn't been broken? If God is a promise-breaker, where is your guarantee that He hasn't broken His promise to save you?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.