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To: BroJoeK; St_Thomas_Aquinas
those are the various scientific classifications

I am aware of classifications. The ability of subspecies to interbreed and undergo natural selection under certain conditions says nothing about creation of new species from old ones. You are simply trying to bury a proposition that fails experientially and logically under irrelevant detail.

as an anti-scientist, you don't get to define scientific terms

I am not "anti-scientist" and I do not derive my inability to believe the evolution cult from anything written in the Bible. My first post on this thread was to explain that the Bible can be interpreted in a way compatible with your beliefs. Your beliefs are wrong precisely because they fail the scientific method of testing hypotheses with evidence, -- not because of some turn of the phrase in the Bible.

almost endless cogent evidence in fossil records and DNA studies showing relationships

They are similarities. Yes, distinct species are often similar and so their DNA are similar. That does not prove the relationship of evolution, just the similarity of the design.

Go to a junk yard and observe "fossils" of cars there. You will find "endless and cogent evidence" that car models originated from other car models by breeding with one another, won't you?

126 posted on 05/17/2012 5:51:00 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
annalex: "The ability of subspecies to interbreed and undergo natural selection under certain conditions says nothing about creation of new species from old ones."

You continue to ignore a key factor here: descent with modifications -- modifications caused by genetic mutations.
These mutations and modifications have been observed and confirmed, so they are facts.

Indeed, since time immemorial, humans have used these modifications as they accumulated over many generations, to create innumerable new breeds and sub-species.

But, has human husbandry replacing natural selection created any new species?

Answer: yes, of course -- any time a new breed of plants, for example, can no longer interbreed with its wild ancestors, it is by definition, a new species.

And what human husbandry can do over a few years or decades, natural selection accomplishes in hundreds of thousands and millions of years.
We know this from both the fossil record, and analyses of different species' DNA.

annalex: "I am not "anti-scientist" and I do not derive my inability to believe the evolution cult from anything written in the Bible."

I don't believe that for a second, and the proof of it is your inability to accurately report what the science of evolution says.

annalex: "That does not prove the relationship of evolution, just the similarity of the design."

Obviously many designs are similar, the question is why?
Scientifically, there's no reason to suspect any mechanism other than evolution.
Yes, certainly "intelligent design" was required, but at what points, exactly? Well, consider that if a perfect God created a perfect natural Universe, then it would require very little in the way of further tinkering and interventions for God to accomplish His purposes.
Therefore the scientific assumption of methodological naturalism should work in nearly all cases, and the need to posit Divine Intervention should be reserved for the most unusual of circumstances.

But a dearth of examples of Divine Intervention in the natural world should not in any way suggest that God's Creation is not doing exactly what He intended it to do.
Indeed, wouldn't an abundance of such examples suggest that God's natural Universe was "out of control" and that He had done a sloppy job in creating it?

Of course, the arrival of rational humans capable of sinful behavior changed everything, and does require frequent Divine Interventions, as we have seen.

So, are there limits to what scientific naturalism can explain?
Of course, but for God's purposes those limits are irrelevant, because by definition science cannot explain God, or His purposes, or the souls of human beings.

annalex: "You will find "endless and cogent evidence" that car models originated from other car models by breeding with one another, won't you?"

There is no scientific evidence that any car ever mated with another car or produced an offspring, so your analogy is bogus.

127 posted on 05/18/2012 6:40:01 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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