Posted on 04/27/2012 7:54:51 PM PDT by Salvation
Oh, THAT's a very good question.
How it worked for me is like this: I could not find ANY way to accept any of the Christian tradition (not just yours, but Protestant too) without having to declare Jesus a false prophet and teacher. Try to prove your savior upon the Old Covenant - The Apostles did. Paul did. You cannot, nor could I. I can now.
Not so. Please refer to Matthew 16. When Jesus established His Church He first established His desired method of Church governance and then He identified His first Pope.
Jesus created a visible Church, a Catholic, Holy, and Apostolic Church. An Ekklesia is a convocation, not a loose invisible assembly.
Jesus introduced three forms of Church governance and specifically rejected two of them. He first considered the democratic (Sola Scriptura) method when He asked; "Who do the people say that I am?". He received several different answers, John the Baptist, Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." None of them right.
He then introduced and rejected an oligarchical form similar to the Pharisees or Sanhedrin when He asked His Apostles collectively; "Who do you say that I am?" They did not answer.
He then revealed His desired method, a theocracy under one chosen man as God had done since He chose Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, David, and Solomon when Peter stepped forward, without consulting the other and said; "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
"Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father."
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the hell shall not prevail against it."
"I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Thanks Johnindisgrace, hang your head and follow the 99%. Follow your churchs traditions. Follow your pope. You are a follower. I tell you Jesus kept the Sabbath and the Bible declares His law will stand forever. One of His laws starts with “Remember” and there is a reason for that. Go your way.
and upon this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of the hell shall not prevail against it." The contrast is between Peter (the little stone) and Jesus The Rock of Ages. Also note the gates of hell prevailed against Peter when he denied His Savior, not once, not twice but three times. Let's go farther in the chapter to v.23 "Get thee behind me Satan; thou art an offense unto me, for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men". The empowerment of Peter (and the other eleven)will come in Heaven when the binding and loosening takes place.
I commend you for looking beyond the contrived or forced interpretation to the context of Scripture. Because He is the Word (Logos) made flesh every word of Scripture is as important and precious as every crumb of the Eucharist.
Following the feeding of the 5,000 near Capernaum Jesus took Peter and along with the other Apostles and Disciples up to Caesarea Philippi to reveal his papacy to him. The selection of the location is far from a coincidence. Caesarea Philippi is a 25 mile, two day hike from Capernaum through some pretty rough country.
At the site of the revelation is a massive exposed rock cliff. Atop the rock stood the city of Caesarea Philippi. It was a very important location militarily, and had been a place of temples and worship dating back thousands of years before the first century. At the base of the cliff is a massive grotto that at the time was a natural cistern that the Greeks and their predecessors believed was an a gate to the underworld. Physically, that rock stood between an city of temples and the gates of hell.
Jesus then told Peter that he was a smaller rock, and that upon it, like the larger rock upon which was built the city before them, He would build His Church and that it would stand forever against the gates of hell. A side note is that all of this arguing about the relevance of Petros versus Petra is foolish in the context of that location. Jesus often used wordplay and humor to convey His message.
Bobby now! Let’s be respectful. Get the name right. No degoratory please. Johngrace is the name.
Do you know of any modern pics that show this as true to form of years ago. Amazing facts! That would make it more tangible in the eyes of the apostles at the time. Thanks!
I just looked that up. There is info on exactly what you stated and more. Interesting. We always learn a new thing everyday!! Lol!!! Bless you! Praise Jesus!!
Johngrace it is. May God forgive you for the trampling of His Law. The Law is holy, perfect and eternal. The law does not save us, it can only condemn. It is the mirror to show us our imperfections. Without it we cannot know sin. If we cannot know sin we know not to repent. Without repentance there can be no mercy. To change a jot or tittle of Gods Law distorts the mirror. It cannot then give a true reflection of our sins. To break one Commandment is to break them all. The first four are our obligation to God and the last six are our obligation to our fellow man. I am done with this thread.
At the location today there is an artist's reconstruction of the site in ancient times. You can see them if you yahoo or google search images for Caesarea Philippi and the Gates of Hell.
An interesting side story is that the Greek era temples atop the rock were dedicated to Panis, the Greek god Pan who was the sudden fear, mischief and confusion (it is where we get the word panic). Pan is the Greek God of shepherds and flocks and depicted in mythology as being half man and half goat.
Also of interest is the fact that although the cave is filled with rock due to earthquake activity in Jesus' day it was full of water and no one had ever measured the depth. The deepest sounding line tried in ancient times put the depth of the water at over 800 ft. The ancients would throw their sacrifices in and believe the gods were answering positively if the blood was seen in the springs nearby which form the source of the Jordan River.
As Blessed John Cardinal Newman once wrote, to know history is to be Catholic.
As Blessed John Cardinal Newman once wrote, to know history is to be Catholic.
It took me months to get those students back, and last Sunday 2 of the Adventists came back! We had moved from the study of Revelation to the Biblical Basis of Israel Independence Day... They started an argument defending the Palestinians, as children of Ishmael, and their right to the land of Israel! I don't know if they are that ignorant or if they just love to start an argument.
Aren’t you lucky.
Why are they coming to your Baptist Sunday School Class? Do they want to be converted?
Otherwise, I think I would get the Sunday School supervisor to escort them out.
I have tried to witness to them, argue with them... now I'm having a hard time being polite to them!!!
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