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I knew Spencer Kimball, and what you read is out of context. Yes, the Church believes man, as children of God in Heaven (just as Paul teaches in Romans) can become perfect, even as God in Heaven is perfect, just like Christ taught in Matthew. But the Church teaches, and I know personally that Spencer Kimball taught that the only way possible for us to “pull ourselves up” was through accepting and having the Atonement of Jesus Christ made effective in our life. His book, “The Miracle of Forgiveness,” is an excellent explanation of how he felt. Sorry...but the endless cut and pastes are presented to paint the picture you want painted of the LDS...not what is actually believed or taught.

Jeff, I own that book by Kimball you reference -- THE Miracle of Forgiveness -- and I've read it..keep reading for two references from that book below re: "how Kimball felt":

So first -- by way of introduction -- What does Mormon doctrine say? "Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved." (Lds Doctrine & Covenants 132:32)

The Bible says that Abraham was saved by faith (Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:2-3) -- not by following a law that had yet to be introduced to anyone of his generation. Rom. 3:20 very specifically says the purpose of the law was to gain knowledge of sin -- not to find salvation. In fact, that verse makes it quite clear that "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

Mormonism declares the primary impetus for God's forgiveness isn't based upon His grace & mercy, but rather upon living his commandments (legalism):

"To make our repentance complete we must always keep the commandments of the Lord (see D&C 1:32). A person is not fully repentant who does not pay this tithes or does not keep the Sabbath day holy or refuses to obey the Word of Wisdom. He is not repentant if he does not sustain the authorities of the Church and does not love the Lord or his fellowmen. A man who fails to have his family prayers and who is unkind to his family and others is surely not repentant...President [Spencer W.] Kimball said...spend the balance of your lives trying to live the commandments of the Lord so he can eventually pardon you and cleanse you." (Lds church, Gospel Principles, p. 120-122, citing Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 200)

The Lds church has it backwards. We are forgiven & cleansed; and therefore God works through us to assist us in good works and pure living. Whereas the Mormon church ey thinks you have to engage in commandment-obedience so that God will eventually pardon & cleanse us. (That's legalism)

Past "prophets" like Spencer W. Kimball & others then stress that you have to earn forgiveness -- Kimball even had a chapter in that book entitled, "Keeping God's Commandments Brings Forgiveness."

Therefore: The official Mormon church clear teaching here is that you MUST FIRST EARN forgiveness by ALWAYS living/keeping the commandments -- and THEN God might "eventually" forgive. How foreign to the true gospel -- where God forgives you NOT on the basis of your obedience level, but due to His own graciousness and mercy revealed in the Person of His Son dying on the cross for our sin.

OK what do you think would happen if Billy Bob stole $10,000 from you, came to you and begged you forgiveness and pays you back and you refuse to forgive him then what? How many times do you do this?

Yet we are free to forgive someone even whom can not pay for their wrong or debt. We are also free but not obligated to forgive those who have not asked for it. It is better we do so really. Forgiveness of others is for our own sake and well being. Hanging on to a grudge which has been asked to be forgiven is like a cancer and it festers and takes over.

Did the men the Romans who placed Christ on the cross ask forgiveness? Did the Jewish leaders who demanded his death? Yet to fulfill all righteousness while dieing on the cross Jesus said, “Father, forgive these people, because they don’t know what they are doing.” He forgave them tho they did not ask forgiveness.

Look I know of persons ministries some call them almost heretics because they are not the ones the minister is trying to reach. Case in point Joyce Myers. That name should stir a hornets nest. Most persons are quite turned off by her. Yet she has helped many in her testimony on forgiveness and she had a lot happen to her too forgive. That is the main focus of her ministry. My dearest tunes in every week and it has helped. She too has had a lot done to her since very early childhood that she has worked on for years trying to forgive.

A sermon in a way is like someone bringing you platters of food you didn't order and half or part of the food you like and half you can not either eat of don't like it. So do you throw out the entire platter? Or do you gain nourishment and enjoyment from what you do like and need?

I'm glad I'm not Catholic because I unconditionally loathe the taste of fish. Forget it I'm not eating it I don't care who says too unless The Lord Himself tells me I must. I'm sure good Catholics eat fish on Friday because I've heard it all my life and every Friday in public school was fish day. I packed a lunch.

Show me just about any church and given time I could very likely find a not so proud moment in it's past, a practice other churches do not do, a belief other churches reject, flaws in dogma or doctrines, etc. It has literally brought people too war throughout history trying to either force conversion {impossible to do} or rid a nation of a belief other than the sanctioned church.