Posted on 04/22/2012 11:23:32 AM PDT by NYer
You wrote:
“He has the book . I gave him Ligouri’s book myself so don’t accuse him of going to any anti catholic site .”
That’s a pity because that means he deceptively edited the quotes himself. Thanks for stipulating that with your post.
“He has the entire book and the book is to old for copyright so he can post lots of it straight from the book .”
Yes, he can post “lots”. Strange that he can’t seem to post complete quotes. Why do you think that is?
“The only thing mindless about it is the trash that is in the book that so many people believe .”
No matter what “many people believe” it would still be wrong to deceptively cut the quotes. Do anti-Catholics consider it to be morally justified to be dishonest?
“Oh and by the way the book has a stamp of approval from the catholic church too”
No reason why it shouldn’t. Does the deceptive quote cutting of such a book have your sect’s stamp of approval or is that something left up to the individual sectarian?
“Your accusing him of lifting stuff off of anti catholic sites sounds an awful lot like projection to me .”
Well, I will no longer ask him about that since you have already admitted that he has the book and - as you have now tacitly admitted - is deceptively quoting the book entirely on his own. Thank you for so graciously stepping forward and confirming that anti-Catholics are dishonest people who will not hesitate to stoop so low as to deceptively cut words from quotes in attacking the Catholic Church. You have been more of a help to me than you probably realize. Thanks.
You know we don’t think like you
We don’t hate Catholics
We don’t spend countless hours on these boards showing you things because we hate you
We do it because we want you to open your eyes
We do it because we don’t want to see you lost
JUst because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean we hate you
If we hated you we would not bother to say anything to you
Oh but we do know how you feel about us
It spews forth on your post
Here why don’t you tell these people they don’t know how to spell mo’s name too
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/mohamed-the-messenger-of-allah-465442.html
and you can tell this guy that he doesn’t know how to spell his own name while you are at it too
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~mhefeeda/
but then you could have just clicked the link I gave you before and it would have showed you a bunch more ways to spell it since they are just transliterations of the same Arabic name.
Ever see how many different ways they spell Hussein?
May God bless you and yours!
May God bless you and yours nevertheless.
The Tridentine Mass is more widely available already and will be increasingly available as time goes by and as today’s young seminarians are ordained. God bless you and yours!
Catholics always like to trot out the name of Bathsheba as being queen during the reign of king Solomon but never mention king David’s mother Nitzevet who was never queen even though she was the mother of David. If it were true that the mother of the king was the queen Nitzevet would have been the queen in David’s kingdom.. You really need to start reading the Bible,... Seriously... even once will do you god.
David Had 8 wives (2 Samuel 3:2-5,) plus Michal and Bathsheba).
Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. So which one was Solomon going to pick as his Queen?, Duh His mother as was the normal practice.
Did Ligouri say it or not? Do you dispute that he said it? Is there other reference to like attitudes and quotes from others in the Catholic faith. Of course there is and yes he did. No one other than a Catholic would claim they get things from Mary. If you dispute what he said show how he meant it other than what I claim.
Not only that but it’s the typical way many try to get out of facing the fact that what we say about what the Catholics believe is true and contained in the RCC documents. This whole “lifted off of anti-Catholic websites” meme gets old. Why not discuss the information? If you believe the information to be wrong show how it’s wrong. I’ll readily admit that I’m “anti-Catholic”. I view it as a cult which has perverted the teachings of scripture. They can’t defend their beliefs from scripture.
So how about you show us where what he said is not what he said? You claim the quote is “lifted” to try to portray that what he said is not what we think he meant. Can you show that he meant something different than what he said?
Are you serious,satan did not know God would become incarnate with Christ at this time and did not know this until after the resurrection
satan had thought he won victory over Christ when Christ died on the cross and it was not until after the Resurrection that he could have fully known Christ was God Incarnate ,and at that time satan knew his time here on earth is short.
1 Corinthians 2:8 backs this up..
"Which none of the princes of this world knew; for if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory."-1 Corinthians 2:8
This is EXACTLY the whole point, mitch5501. THANK YOU. Please read, stfassisi. And prayerfully, you will understand.
You wrote:
“You know we don’t think like you”
What I know is that deceptively cut quotes were posted. Why?
“We don’t hate Catholics”
So love necessitates deceptively cut quotes be posted? What kind of love is that?
“We don’t spend countless hours on these boards showing you things because we hate you”
So what does spending hours on this board posting deceptively cut quotes and then avoiding basic questions about them show?
“We do it because we want you to open your eyes”
My eyes are open. That’s exactly how I knew deceptively cut quotes were posted. So, if someone won’t come clean about what he did - posting deceptively cut quotes - whose eyes really are not open?
“We do it because we don’t want to see you lost”
I’m not lost. And again, if someone won’t come clean about what he did - posting deceptively cut quotes - who really is lost here?
“JUst because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean we hate you”
So if someone acts dishonestly towards me, and repeatedly refuses to take responsibility for it, is that a sign of love? What kind of love is that?
“If we hated you we would not bother to say anything to you”
So, again, posting deceptively cut quotes, and then refusing to take responsibility for them, is an act of love according to you? What kind of love is that?
“Oh but we do know how you feel about us
It spews forth on your post”
I am not being dishonest toward you nor am I refusing to take responsibility for what I have done. I freely admit I hate the dishonesty, lack of accountability, and generally low personal morality I see in lying, deceptive, anti-Catholics. If you see that in my posts, good. And hating deception, cowardice, and mean-spiritedness so deep it results in public lying, is simply not wrong.
Why were the quotes deceptively cut? When will someone take responsibility and admit he deceptively cut the quotes?
You wrote:
“Here why don’t you tell these people they don’t know how to spell mo’s name too”
Nope. I’ll just let the dictionary you youself cited continue to stand against you. I think it is far more telling that you contradicted the very source you cited as evidence in your favor than that a UK newspaper used a non-standard spelling. It doesn’t matter that the newspaper agreed with you. It only matters that you didn’t agree with your own evidence.
You wrote:
“Did Ligouri say it or not?”
Is what you posted the full quote? If not, then no, he never said it that way. Deceptively quoting someone can be tantamount to actually inventing quotes.
I’ll demonstrate using your own words:
This...
“No one other than a Catholic would claim they get things from Mary.”
...is dramatically different than this...
“No... Catholic would claim they get things from Mary.”
It’s only four words different, but it has an entirely different sense doesn’t it? Even you should be able to admit that point.
By the way, when you wrote this: “No one other than a Catholic would claim they get things from Mary” you were wrong in any case. Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and even some Protestants claim they “get things” from the Virgin Mary. So, not only are you wrong about the Ligouri quotes - while still apparently unable to simply admit you cut them as Lera has tacitly admitted you have done - but you’re wrong in your own statement. Gee, you’re really not doing well here, are you?
Historical Christianity and the Early Church Fathers Understood satan’s lack of knowledge about Christ before the Crucifixion as well
From Saint Leo the Great (6th century)
“That God might deliver humanity from the bonds of the death-bringing transgression, He concealed the power of Christ’s majesty from the fury of the devil(1 Cor 2:8) and offered him instead the infirmity of our lowliness. For had this proud and cruel enemy known the plan of God’s mercy, he would have striven rather to temper with mildness the hearts of (those who crucified Christ) rather than to inflame them with evil hate, so that he might not lose the slavery of all his captives, while he pursued the liberty of the one who owed him nothing.”-Saint Leo the Great
This ought to make perfect sense to anyone!
You wrote:
“Not only that but it’s the typical way many try to get out of facing the fact that what we say about what the Catholics believe is true and contained in the RCC documents.”
That is an entirely false statement. I never doubted that Ligouri wrote a book, The Glories of Mary. I pointed out that the quotes from it were deceptively cut and even posted the complete quote which showed the ones you posted were inaccurate representations to say the least. But why let a full quote get in the way of an anti-Catholic attack, right?
“This whole “lifted off of anti-Catholic websites” meme gets old.”
Gets old? Is that an admission that you have done it before? Maybe it “gets old” because anti-Catholics have a habit of doing it so often. Let’s demonstrate. Take your deceptively cut quote:
“.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help”
Now, that’s exactly how you posted it in post #144. I cut and pasted it into google just as you had it. What came up? Two types of webpages: 1) anti-Catholic webpages, and 2) actual google books of Ligouri’s Glories of Mary.
Here’s the first point, however. ALL of the anti-Catholic webpages - ALL OF THEM on the first page of google - fail to mention that Ligouri is quoting St. Anselm.
Second point: This anti-Catholic website has the quote verbatim as you had it just with none of the extra and non-standard caps you used:
‘We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.’ ‘She … is our salvation, our life, our hope, our counsel, our refuge and our help’ (pp. 254, 257). http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_cult_of_mary.html
This one too:
‘We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.’ ‘She … is our salvation, our life, our hope, our counsel, our refuge and our help’ (pp. 254, 257). http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=22347
Then here, a poster named pagan66, quotes it just as you did WITH THE CAPS JUST AS YOU HAVE THEM!:
“We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. She…is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (The Glories of Mary by Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, pp. 254, 257).
He even says “This is seen by the statement by Bishop Liqouri” before the quote while you wrote a startling similar, “Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri” before the quote. http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/reports-of-the-popes-death-within-a-year-vatican-assassination-fears-revealed/
Interesting, no? And look at those caps again: “...Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help.” Strange that caps would be used by you and pagan66 since caps like that appear in none of the editions of the book, huh? But they do appear on anti-Catholic websites:
“This is seen by the statement by Bishop Liqouri “We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (The Glories of Mary by Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, pp. 254, 257).” http://www.letusreason.org/RC7.htm
Strange isn’t it? You claim you got the quote out of the book, but the book never NEVER uses caps in the quote your posting. Yet anti-Catholic websites do use caps like that. Imagine that. And anti-Catholic websites often say “statement” from Bishop Ligouri before the quote - just like you did. Nothing like that appears in the actual book, however. In fact, as mentioned above, Ligouri was quoting St. Anselm - and he does it TWICE in the book and names St. Anselm as the author of the quote and uses quote marks as well. And caps are not used as you used them.
I think it is obvious why you don’t want to talk about the source of the quote. The fact that, in your version of the quote, St. Anselm is not mentioned, the fact that caps are used when they don’t EVER appear in the original book that way, the fact that a number of anti-Catholic websites have the quote verbatim as you have it (at times even including the caps which DO NOT APPEAR IN THE ORIGINAL) all show the source of the quotes was not the actual book, but an anti-Catholic website. Yet Lera says otherwise. He says you got it from the book passed on by him to you. So, which one of you is telling the truth?
“Why not discuss the information? If you believe the information to be wrong show how it’s wrong.”
I already did. Post #151
“I’ll readily admit that I’m “anti-Catholic”.”
I think we all knew that already. The question is when will you admit the source of the quote?
“I view it as a cult which has perverted the teachings of scripture. They can’t defend their beliefs from scripture.”
That’s rich when it is becoming all the more obvious you lifted the quote from an anti-Catholic website. Do you not believe what you do on earth can be seen by God?
After having read the initial article, I do not find the author convincing in the least.
Why didnt he join the Orthodox or Mormons who make the same claims of exclusive authority?
You wrote:
“So how about you show us where what he said is not what he said?”
Ligouri was quoting St. Anselm. Why didn’t you mention that when you quoted him?
“You claim the quote is “lifted” to try to portray that what he said is not what we think he meant.”
Read post #217. At this point there can be no doubt that you “lifted” the quote. Also, the way the quotes were deceptively cut show that in fact he meant something different than what you’re claiming. That is obvious and irrefutable. I already demonstrated that when I posted the full quotes. That’s probably why you won’t use those quotes, right?
“Can you show that he meant something different than what he said?”
I already conclusively showed - using his own words - that he meant something radically different than you were implying. It is not what “he said” but what you failed to post that he said that is key. I also demonstrated that with your own wrods. Remember?
Is this:
“No one other than a Catholic would claim they get things from Mary.”
the same as this:
“No... Catholic would claim they get things from Mary.”
No, the two statements are not the same. And I guarantee no one would find it honest for someone to take a quote that says “No one other than a Catholic” and change it to “No... Catholic” but that is exactly the sort of thing you have posted.
Because their claims don’t work.
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