Graven Images: Altering the Commandments?

CNA ^ | A Catholic Response, Inc.

[GonzoII]

Graven Images: Altering the Commandments?

And the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent... Numbers 21:8-9

Recently we received an 80-page booklet entitled "What's Behind The New World Order?" It can be traced back to the writings of Ellen G. White, foundress of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. According to this booklet, the Catholic Church is behind the New World Order. The booklet claims that this is true, since the Church is the beast of Revelation (Rev. 17). It attempts to prove this claim by exposing the "marks of the beast." Due to limited space, only one charge will be considered. This is a common charge used against the Catholic Church.

According to this booklet, one "mark of the beast" is the alteration of God's Commandments. The booklet claims that the Catholic Church dropped the "Second Commandment" which forbids "graven images", i.e. statues. Allegedly the Catholic Church condones statue worship.

Now one version of the Ten Commandments can be found in the fifth chapter of the Book of Deuteronomy (also Exodus 20). Comparing Deut. 5:6-21 in a Catholic Bible with that found in a Protestant Bible reveals no essential differences. A few words may differ but that is due to differing translations. The major difference is not content but how Catholics and Protestants traditionally divide up and number these Commandments. Unfortunately the Bible lumps the Ten Commandments all together without division or numbering. (The verse numbers are no help since they were added by Bible scholars many centuries after Christ.)

Traditionally Catholics consider Deut. 5:6-10 as the First Commandment, verse 11 as the Second Commandment, verses 12-15 as the Third Commandment and so on. Verse 21 is split up into the Ninth and Tenth Commandments - distinguishing the desire (lust) to commit adultery from the desire (greed) to steal. This division scheme was advocated by St. Augustine in his writings on Exodus. Traditionally Protestants consider Deut. 5:6-7 as the First Commandment, verses 8-10 as the Second Commandment, verse 11 as the Third Commandment and so on. Verse 21 is kept together as the Tenth Commandment.

According to the RSV Bible and Catholic Tradition, the First Commandment is:

(6)I am the LORD your God,...(7)You shall have no other gods before me. (8)You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; (9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, (10)but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. [Deut. 5:6-10; RSV]

Verse 7 forbids the worship of other gods, while verses 8-9 forbid the making of graven (carved) images that would be worshipped as gods, i.e. idols. Now worshipping statues with divine honor is one way of worshipping other gods. Verse 7 is a general statement of the First Commandment, while verses 8-9 give a specific case of this Commandment. Verses 9-10 present the punishments and rewards that are associated with these Commandments.

By combining together Deut. 5:6-10 into one Commandment, the Catholic Church is accused of altering the Commandments and covering up God's command forbidding graven images. Suspicions are further fueled when Catholic books only present the general form of the Commandment, Deut. 5:7, in order to expedite memorization. Now one must ask the question: "Does God forbid the making of statues, or does He condemn the worship of statues?" If God condemns the divine worship of statues, then the Catholic division scheme is justified since these images would be "other gods before" Him. A separate Commandment based on Deut. 5:8-10 would be redundant.

Now if God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed.

Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church during the Council of Trent (1545-1563) issued a clear statement concerning images and statues. According to the 25th Session of this General Council:

The images of Christ and of the Virgin Mother of God, and of the saints are to be had and retained particularly in churches, and due honor and veneration are to be given them; not that any divinity or virtue is believed to be in them on account of which they are to be worshipped, or that anything is to be asked of them, or that trust is to be reposed in images, as was of old by the Gentiles, who placed their hopes in idols; but because the honor which is shown them is referred to the prototypes which these images represent; so that we through the images which we kiss...or bend the knee, adore Christ and venerate the saints, whom they represent. [The Canons & Decrees of the Council of Trent (TAN Books, 1978) p. 215-6]

The Church does NOT compel her members to kneel or pray before images. No one is allowed by the Church to pray to images since they have no ears to hear or power to help us. The Church allows for the veneration of images as long as the honor is directed towards Christ and His saints.

On a related issue, some Christians may object to the veneration of images of the saints since they believe that honor should be directed towards God alone and not towards Mary or the saints (1 Tim. 1:17). This objection arises from a confusion between divine honor (adoration - supreme honor proper only for God) and respectful honor proper for men. According to the Bible, the people of God bowed down before King David to show him honor (2 Sam. 24:20; 1 Chron. 29:20; 21:21). Obadiah in 1 Kings 18:7 fell prostrate before Elijah showing him reverence for being a prophet of God. In the Ten Commandments, we are told to honor our mother and father (Deut. 5:16). Even Jesus defended and obeyed this Commandment (Mark 7:9-13; Luke 2:51). At least for Mary, our honor to her is in imitation of Jesus, her Son (1 Cor. 11:1). The Church allows for the veneration of the saints and their images as long as it remains honor proper for men. It is good to honor the saints for their love and trust in God (Matt. 22:31-32; Heb. 11:1-12:1).

The Catholic Church has not altered the Ten Commandments of God. The Church has not dropped the "Second Commandment" as the booklet alleges. The Catholic numbering scheme may differ with the Protestant numbering scheme, but this is due to a difference in tradition and not an alteration of God's Commandments. Unfortunately the Bible is not clear on how to divide or number the Ten Commandments. If this difference is scandalous, it would be interesting to know what the author of the booklet thought of Jesus Christ when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

Finally the Church strictly condemns the adoration (divine worship) of statues, images or even the saints, since this is idolatry and in direct violation of the First Commandment. For Christians a crucifix should not be considered merely as a statue of Jesus hanging on a cross, but as a reminder of the high cost of our salvation as well as His words to us:

"If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." [Mark 8:34]

Printed with permission from A Catholic Response, Inc.

[RoadTest]

“Thus you have made the commandments of God of none effect by your traditions.” - Matthew 15:6

[crosshairs]

"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2

"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32

"...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10

"For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it!" 2 Corinthians 11:4 [I.e. don't tolerate heresy]

"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5-6

"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19

[Natural Law]

"Thus you have made the commandments of God of none effect by your traditions.” - Matthew 15:6"

Can you explain if this passage is referring to "paradosis" or "kerygma" and how that difference might reflect on the validity of the criticism of the Catholic Church?

[crosshairs]

Can you explain if this passage is referring to "paradosis" or "kerygma" and how that difference might reflect on the validity of the criticism of the Catholic Church?

As a Catholic, do you fully trust that Jesus' sacrifice atoned all your sins, past, present, and future? Or do you believe you must add to it in order to save yourself? If you must add to it, are you prepared to be judged according to law (which by the way, no human can pass), rather than being saved by God's grace?

[johngrace]

Any real Catholic knows we ask for Prayerss from the saints. I have asked Prayers from Saint Benedict with Christ. Instaneous healings. In Christ through him in Him and the unity of the Holy Spirit we are asking prayer from the Heavenly Host with Jesus.

When we see chickens sacrificed then I will believe you.

[Campion]

The Roman Catholic Magisterical DID alter the Written Word of God’s 10 commandments about graven images to suit their own power mongering goals and methods. Facts are facts and rants ... don’t tend to alter the facts.

Good point.

Tell me, why do you then issue rants whose contents are blatant falsehoods (like the above)?

By the way, is, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" still in your list of the ten commandments? I ask because you just violated that commandment above.

[Campion]

As a Catholic, do you fully trust that Jesus' sacrifice atoned all your sins, past, present, and future?

Catholics believe that the merits of the Atonement are infinite.

However, that does not excuse the Christian from the obligation to live as what he is, a son of God, by adoption, through grace. Consistent with that sonship, and enabled by grace, he repents and asks pardon of his sins from his heavenly Father. (cf the parable of the Prodigal Son)

This repentance is ongoing throughout life, just as sinning is ongoing throughout life. It is not a one-time event that one allows one to "trust in Christ" and then sin without consequence forever after.

Or do you believe you must add to it in order to save yourself?

Nobody can save themselves. But by a sufficiently stiff-necked and unrepentant heart, one can certainly damn himself. That's simply a matter of God giving the reprobate what she or he wants, that's all. God won't save you against your will.

[johngrace]

It is a state of Grace. Just look 1john1. We maintain it. Notice John talks about himself.

This is addressed to Christians. We have to live the life.

We have to confess our sins to God as Christians though Jesus.

John 1:

5 “This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 IF we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.

verse 7 “shows IF WE KEEP THE WALK THE SON PURIFIES.”

8 IF WE( Christians) claim to be Without Sin, WE DECEIVE ourselves and the TRUTH IS NOT in US. 9 IF WE CONFESS Our SINS, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”

There are several IF ‘s in this by John The Apostle.

IF is defined as Condition, Requirement Or Stipulation in my Dictionary.

Notice every One of the words IF the true meaning it reads after this word if are presented for true understanding.

Notice Decieve. Deceive equals if We Claim to be with out Sins.

Notice how “we make God a liar” and His Word is Not in Us.

Do Not Be Decieved. Why would The Apostle John write These exact words!

He uses the word “We” meaning he includes himself.

He uses a lot of We’s too. Hmmmm. Do Not Be Deceived!

Jesus I Pray for All to Understand Your Apostle’s Words !

Praise You Jesus Always!

Glory Be To The Father ,Son and Holy Spirit!

Going to Mass! Freeper Cheers!!

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind replies.

I’m not much interested in the drawn out back and forths so traditional hereon about such things.

Holy Spirit is well able to affirm what HE will’s in the hearts, minds, spirits of those SERIOUSLY interested in

GOD’S TRUTH on such matters.

[Quix]

this is the best you anti catholics can do? simply declare the catholic church did it, and provide nothing to substantiate it or bring up facts to refute the actual article itself?

lame.

Not lame

AT ALL.

Quite OBVIOUS, actually.

There's no other remotely adequate explanation that fits the historical record or the rather plain linear facts of the documents.

[Quix]

YUP

[redgolum]

On my phone, but there are two lists of the 10 commandments. Of interest Lutherans follow the more traditional reading like the Catholics.

[BipolarBob]

A misunderstanding. I was agreeing that it was nonsense. and that rants were unhelpful. I obviously failed to convey that message that I was agreeing with you when I said agreed. My apologies.

[Lx]

Wrong again...When God says to do something for him, you do it...When he says don't do it for you, you don't do it...You guys can thumb your noses at God and tell him that if he can tell you to do it for him, you can decide for yourselves to do it for you...But I certainly would advise against it...

Short, sweet and to the point. I agree.

You don't get to negotiate with God, well maybe what Abram did with the 50, 40...10 righteous people in Sodom or Gomorrah.

[raygunfan]

the historical record validates the church, you and your like-minded fellow traveler types, have presented zero verifiable historical to counter it.

[Quix]

My apology.

I spring boarded off your post without affirming sufficiently clearly that I was agreeing with your post. Sorry on my part.

{{{hugs}}} LOL.

I probably should qualify the agreement, however.

I think that on occasion, rants are informative to some souls . . . probably on both sides.

I don’t automatically think that all rants are evil. LOL.

I just think that ego driven, overly contentious and redundant rants for the 666th time are more than a little unnecessary

at BEST.

Alas, there’s always new lurkers on all sides to possibly learn something from a repeat performance.

Still, relentless repetitions of wearisome blather which takes even possibly authentic Christian brothers and sisters by the throat and batters them back and forth with prickly self-righteousness and arrogance . . .

is not likely to be evidence of the fruit of Holy Spirit—at least not most of the time.

Now that I’ve probably muddied the water more than I intended, I’ll shut-up for the moment. LOL.

Thanks for your kind reply.

[Former Fetus]

Any real Catholic knows

LOL! The good nuns must have failed miserably with me. And so did our archbishop, when he personally awarded me for my knowledge of catechism. But you're right, maybe I never was a REAL Catholic. That's why I found Jesus in a Southern Baptist Church!

[Natural Law]

"As a Catholic...."

Rather than talk past one another I propose we engage in a dialog. First you answer my question and then I'll answer yours:

Can you explain if this passage is referring to "paradosis" or "kerygma" and how that difference might reflect on the validity of the criticism of the Catholic Church?

[Quix]

the historical record validates the church, you and your like-minded fellow traveler types, have presented zero verifiable historical to counter it.

.

.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

I would guess that most educated folks are keenly aware that

The Jewish copies of the Mosaic Penteteuch existed for centuries before the Roman Catholic magicsterical decided to twist the record into their power mongering schemes a few centuries after Christ.

The RC mangled text version of the 10 Commandments

did NOT EXIST until the RC magicsterical power-mongering manglers got a hold of it and contorted it toward their !!!CONTROL!!! schemes and idolatries.

.

Enough. The evidence is available for all to see. Those who truly seek God's Truth in the matter can, with Holy Spirit's help, ferret it out.

But there's no real ferreting necessary. It's plainly available just by comparing the ancient Jewish text with the mangled RC version.

[johngrace]

I do not think you are any way dumb but just wrong. That's all.

If he awarded you. What does that all mean. So they told you Catholics worship saints. Then they awarded for teaching worship of saints. We know that can't be. If he did he was died against Catholic teaching.

Also let me tell you an open secret if you confessed the Nicene Creed and believed it. You had Jesus all along. Whether you know it or not. Just read 1John 4 . Of course if you really believed. All of this confession stems from famous verses of scripture especially 1John4 .

I have personally encounter an occultist who could not declare The Apostles or Nicene Creed after she told me she was a Christian. She could not do it in the personal pronoun. I challenged her she could not declare it with strange manifestations. Honest. Very important to know with all these " New Age" thought going around.