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To: fso301

Do you believe that Jesus overruled the laws of nature in order to perform His miracles?

Did He really walk on water? Did He really change water to wine? Did He really cause dead people to come back alive? Did He really make a violent storm come to an end by speaking to it?

The Creator, since before the beginning, has been injecting Himself into His creation, overruling the laws of nature.

The last sentence of your last paragraph makes you sound more like a Deist than a Christian. Would you consider yourself a Deist, rather than a Theist?


108 posted on 03/21/2012 7:01:05 AM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo; EnglishCon
Do you believe that Jesus overruled the laws of nature in order to perform His miracles?

I think it safe to say humans only know a fraction of the laws of nature. What Jesus did, he probably did within the total set of laws governing this universe.

Did He really walk on water? Did He really change water to wine? Did He really cause dead people to come back alive? Did He really make a violent storm come to an end by speaking to it?

As far as I know he did all the above.

Consider the "cargo cults". During WWII, tribesmen in New Guinea, Melanesia and Micronesia interacting Americans thought we were Gods capable of doing things so fantastic as to be miraculous. When Americans left the region, religious cults formed to lure the Americans back complete with mock airstrips, airplanes, etc.

As we know, Americans simply demonstrated a superior understanding of physical laws to these primitive people. Using that as an example, Christ didn't need to alter physical laws to perform his miracles, he may have just demonstrated a superior understanding.

See also "cargo cults" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7RA4UnEuQ0

The Creator, since before the beginning, has been injecting Himself into His creation, overruling the laws of nature.

Or, might it be safe to say he occasionally injects himself into his creation and demonstrates a superior understanding of the laws that he created?

The last sentence of your last paragraph makes you sound more like a Deist than a Christian. Would you consider yourself a Deist, rather than a Theist?

I fail to see how it does?

112 posted on 03/21/2012 9:07:00 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Theo; fso301
Since I was courtesy pinged to your comment:

Do you believe that Jesus overruled the laws of nature in order to perform His miracles?

I differ slightly from fso301 here. I simply do not know. I have seen things that would be considered miracles by anyone, that simply made no sense going by what we know. I also accept that we don't know or understand more than 1/1000th of the complexity of the natural laws laid down at creation.

Did He really walk on water? Did He really change water to wine? Did He really cause dead people to come back alive? Did He really make a violent storm come to an end by speaking to it?

It is in the book. The last two could have rational scientific explanations given even now, the first two cannot by our current understanding.

The Creator, since before the beginning, has been injecting Himself into His creation, overruling the laws of nature.

Now I can agree with that, for it is also in the Word. He talked to Abraham and Moses in person. You don't get a voice coming out of a burning bush no matter how you try. Maybe the odd word from the crackle of the flames - we've all had that, but not a conversation. A burning peyote cactus on the other hand .... He physically lead the Israelites as a pillar of smoke or fire.

115 posted on 03/21/2012 9:31:52 AM PDT by EnglishCon (Gingrich/Santorum 2012.)
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