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To: NYer

How much of this do you attribute to the revocation of the Oath Against Modernism by Pope Paul VI in 1967?


5 posted on 03/12/2012 2:43:27 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law

I’m not sure the oath really worked, because people who were inclined to practice modernism weren’t concerned about lying in a sworn oath anyway. However, it did at least state that the Church was opposed to these ideas.

I am old enough to have known some members of the older generation (that is, priests who were already priests at the time of Vatican II), and I think dissent was unfortunately pretty widespread already, oath or no. Maybe they had to be quieter about it and a little more sneaky, but things wouldn’t have collapsed so fast after Vatican II if they hadn’t been weak before that.

I think people have never considered the effect that the American church had on Vatican II. Many of the supposed “problems” brought up at Vatican II were just an expression of the usual American Catholic desire to remove identifiably Catholic practices in order to fit in and prove that they were just as American as any good Protestant or non-believer. So modernization - and I’m not saying there weren’t certain things that did need a bit of an updating or refreshing - came to mean shedding anything that was identifiably Catholic.

This harmonized very well with the goals of leftists such as Bugnini, and I think gave them the power they needed to push their agenda through before the other bishops even fully processed what was happening. But that was, again, because the leftists were indeed Modernists, and their quiet, murmured heresy had actually been tolerated for a long time in the Church, oath or now.


7 posted on 03/12/2012 2:57:45 PM PDT by livius
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To: Natural Law
How much of this do you attribute to the revocation of the Oath Against Modernism by Pope Paul VI in 1967?

I was not aware of this oath, so, I guess the proper response is nothing. On my own personal journey (which began pre VCII), I tried to absorb the changes. Most recently, while residing in one of the most progressive dioceses in the US, I battled liturgical abuse. After decades of this nonsense, I watched in abject horror as a EMHC dropped a consecrated host on the sanctuary floor. Unsure of what to do, she bent over, picked it up and redeposited it in her Pyrex glass communion cup. It was the final straw.

Literally eight years ago today, recalling the words of our Savior "ask and you will receive", I bowed my head in prayer and asked our Lord to guide me to a holy priest, a reverent liturgy and a community in need of whatever God-given abilities I might possess. He did not fail! After visiting other parishes within the diocese, I attended mass at one of the Eastern (Maronite) Catholic Churches. The response was quick and most welcome.

It has been exactly 8 years since that first visit and I have never looked back. In the Maronite Church, I have found a most welcoming community that functions like a family. The liturgy is replete with incense (even at the low mass), the spirituality is pervasive and everyone contributes towards the community as a whole. The liturgy was brought by St. Peter to Antioch where he served as bishop before proceeding to Rome. The consecration is chanted in Aramaic - the language of Christ, His Blessed Mother and the Apostles. Because of its small size, the community functions much like a family where people pull together and volunteer to ensure the health and longevity of the small parish. In the short span of 8 years, I have been asked to serve on the women's sodality, been elected to the Parish Council, successfully written two grants (with God's assistance) and served as Director for Religious Education. The years have flown by and I am still enamored by the beauty of the Maronite Church.

8 posted on 03/12/2012 3:06:27 PM PDT by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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