Posted on 02/29/2012 6:04:50 PM PST by Colofornian
Britain's late Princess Diana has been posthumously baptised a Mormon.
The royal - who was killed in a Paris car crash in August 1997 - was 'baptised' by the church after her death, even though she didn't belong to the religion.
Diana - former wife of heir to the throne Prince Charles - was listed by her maiden name, Diana Frances Spencer, with her address as the family seat of Althorp, Northamptonshire.
Her file also includes her birth and death date, according to the Daily Mail newspaper.
Other late stars to have been 'baptised' posthumously include Charlie Chaplin, Marilyn Monroe and Rita Hayworth.
The Mormon Church believes that in the afterlife no one is beyond redemption, no matter how evil they were, so the list also includes Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler.
Helen Radkey has been investigating the Mormon Church - which is one of the world's fastest growing religions with 14 million followers, almost half in the US.
Using a computer log-on passed to her by a disaffected follower, she researched the databases in the Church's Family History Library and found that the names of hundreds of thousands of dead people had been logged, so they could be baptised as Mormons.
I suggest reading the bible, after you have done so, get back to me, the only leftist-hate spittle, is coming from you.
So is the Jewish religion, if the NT is literally true. Agreed?
Agreed
Let me restate the proposition:
Does a Mormon rite for the souls of the dead hurt anyone.
No. How in the world could it?
Ah, the "Jewish card".
When Jews start claiming to be the only true Christians and start circumcising people posthumously, I'll get concerned about them.
Not only that, at an earlier point in her life, she had a very difficult time with Mormons at her workplace, and she really loathed everything that Mormons stood for, they were aggressive and pushy in the extreme, she considered them the worst of heretics, arrogant, self righteous, smug, and just a little crazy. It is just awful considering how she felt, that they should “get” her in the end, and that any member of our family would do this to her. Of all the things she would not want, this is at the top of the list. But because of this Mormon grandchild, it is highly likely that she will be, or has been, dead dunked into this nonsense, and it infuriates and hurts me that her name should ever be associated with this cult whose beliefs and pushy ways she so profoundly detested. Tomorrow I am going to write out a statement, get it notarized, and put it away with my will, so that if I should be ever be dead dunked, my heirs can see to it my name is removed. I just wish I had thought to do this for my mother when we first heard about this conversion of my niece.
Jesus said,
Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
It is her memory that is dishonored
That is your memory. They only have power over that if you let them.
No one’s a victim here. God won. Thanks be to God.
So the Jews are going to hell?
Pesky thing, that.
When Jews start claiming to be the only true Christians and start circumcising people posthumously, I'll get concerned about them.
The person I addressed my statement to agreed that the Jewish religion is leading people to hell, if the NT is literally true. Do you agree or disagree with us?
I’d love to hear a caller bring this up with Glenn beck.
“So if you were a Jewish mortician who got a network of worldwide morticians to circumcize dead people...to make them supposed afterlife Jews...why, they think they are doing a “good thing”...would they not?
They would. But a better anology perhaps would be if they only claimed to be spiritually performing circumcision. The LDS doesn’t dig folks up and then baptize their remains.
“And who would know?”
I have wondered why we know about it when some one gets “baptised.” They seem to just put up who they have “baptised” on websites as far as I can tell. What I don’t get is why they agree to stop when asked. It seems pretty cruel to deprive someone of a second chance to accept salvation just because someone living wants them to. Why would anyone agree to that?
Freegards
Make no mistake, Jesus is the Son of the living God and the New Testament is literally true. Part of that literal truth is that Jesus said, no man comes to the Father except by Him.
I don't have to "condemn" anybody that Scripture hasn't already condemned...or are you one of those who knows John 3:16 but couldn't tell anybody what John 3:18 says?
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned ALREADY because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
What's "funny" is that you keep hinting that judgment seems to be only about a final one in heaven...when the condemnation process and the eternal life process BOTH begins on this side of the veil.
I don’t want ANYONE to go to hell and neither does GOD.
Not true. (How dare you try to speak for God on that matter when He's already spoken)
If you were a loving father and a doctor during the Black plague, quarantine would be THE loving thing to do. You wouldn't want to infect the entire populace under your false notion that quarantine is "anti-divine."
The devil, for example, made his own choice when he sinned. God, as a result, quarantined them (devil & his angels) from heaven.
He sent them to a temporary destination -- earth ["He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:9)]...
...and He also designated them to an eternal destination which He prepared for them. ["‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire PREPARED for the devil and his angels.'" (Matt. 25:41)]
What? Are you claiming God does all these things that goes against His own will??? Why would God prepare a place of occupation to remain unoccupied? Are you really claiming by parallel comparison, that we don't want anybody to go to death-row, lifetime prison? Really? You mean the purposeful people who build prisons would prefer they remain unoccupied in your Pollyanna world?
Frankly, even looking @ the "better side" of what you might mean with that phrase, God the Father already dealt with His not-wanting-people-to-go-to-hell love on the cross. The cross was His means to staving off hell; but you reduce God to some poor-less-than-omniscient being -- as if He didn't know that the cross would not be apprehended by the entire human race. The blood of Christ covers all; the blood of Christ is rejected by some...Paul talked about "enemies of the cross," for example.
Your carte-blanche, lack-of-qualifiers commentary makes it sound like, if God forbid, your ENTIRE family & ALL relatives were massacred by a terrorist, you'd get up @ the sentencing hearing of his trial & would tell the world: "I don't want ANYONE to receive the death penalty or even life-in-prison and neither does GOD."
Wow! How naively noble-sounding...almost pious, even; yet how utterly ignorant of the universe & the entities that roam it.
Uh...Duh...Ya know, Jack, it just might be in the best interest of the rest of the human family...ya know...to actually look beyond YOUR own soppy sentimentalisms voiced on behalf of the devil, the demons, and various assorted anti-christs and actually conclude..."Oh, I guess you're right...God REALLY does want the human race to be protected from those like Satan who was 'a murderer from the beginning' (John 8:44)."
Is the Bible specific about people being condemned to hell as part of God's will? (Yup)
Sounds to me like you've got a little New Testament readin' to do...Let's focus on two verses first -- but then back up to see who these verses are talking about so that we have that context:
* 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. (Jude 13)
* 17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. (2 Peter 2:17)
If God doesn't want to protect the rest of the human race from the constant re-introduction of these spirits' mayhem...if He doesn't want to quarantine them...then why has God made such special "blackest darkness" reservations for them already???
What? You want these entities to be around mainstreaming with others forever??? Really??? Hmm...You sound like an overly idealistic rookie public defender or something.
Context: So...who are Jude & Peter talking about?
Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. 8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings...these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. 11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion. 12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. (Jude)
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him...those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born ONLY to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. 13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. (2 Peter 2)
I guess, DManA, Jude & Peter must have missed your "Caveat Memo" to them...how immediately after Jude 13 & 2 Pet. 2:17, they should have added..."But even though these reservations have been made, God doesn't see any fulfillment coming because He's less than eternally sovereign and less than omniscient on these things. And, hey, what's 'tough love' in a 'tough universe,' after all?" -- Signed, DManA
The only flaw I see in your argument MB is that Buddhists don’t go around saying they’re Christians, whereas mormons do.
Proposing that these rites, although not to be found anywhere in any scripture known to Christianity, are somehow “Christian” even in the face of the Biblical scripture that condemns the practice as paganism.
Yet, Christians are condemned, mocked, ridiculed, etc. by other “fellow” Christians for refuting their teachings and doctrines.
Well this is far worse, this is not her body, this is the essence of her soul! My mother spent many hours in the last years of life on her knees before God, the Holy One of Israel, who so loved the world that He sent His Only Begotten Son to die upon that cross for our sons.
Putting things to right with Him was her first order, facing her sins, confessing them, seeking forgiveness, and then as a gift for that forgiveness, to make amends to any she felt she had wronged or who felt they had been wronged by her (but don't get me wrong, my mother always was a kind and decent human being) and in tandem were many hours of prayer for the the welfare and spiritual well being of her children, her grandchildren, nieces and nephews, friends (AND our country.)
When I look how seriously she took her faith, and her relationship with God, and the whole business of dying, it scares me. I'm entering my senior years and I know I have a lot work to do (again don't get me wrong, my mother was also a fun person and not ever a pious, sanctimonious holier than thou goody-two-shoes -- my mother would not have a problem with voting for Newt Gingrich!)
How dare these Mormons assume that my mother did not make serious spiritual decisions regarding the state of her immortal soul, her moral values, and the kind of life she wanted to live, not to mention her decision about what to believe, and her choice of faith, right down to her choice of denomination.
How dare they in their smug simple-minded superiority, with their absolutely ridiculous theology, think they have the right to overrule her, to negate the whole point and purpose and direction of her life, which was to be reborn, to be cleansed and forgiven and made a new person, to be made holy and found worthy to enter the Kingdom of God (not the celestial kind, I really don't think she would enjoy being everlastingly pregnant) to have fellowship forever with God, and with His Saints and His Angels. And to do so as a Roman Catholic!
Just who do these Mormons think they are? How dare they? This is an outrage, whether it is done in secret or not, or whether I know about it or not. The ones who have sinned are the ones who have violated my mother's legacy, her memory, her spirit; not the one who would expose it.
And the very fact that those egotistical self-important Mormons who know nothing about my mother, who would desecrate her name and her memory, violate the spiritual inheritance left to her children, are the ones who are in the wrong doing this insulting demeaning thing to our family, then when found out, point their spiritually immature (if not dead) self-excusing self-righteous fingers at those who exposed their evil doings as being the ones in the wrong, after they committed this crime against our family in secret.
You would deny my right to my feelings so no wrong is done by those who HAVE done wrong! Isn't denying me the right to have feelings on this matter, a wrong also? I should not have to detach myself from this wound, this unholy violation of what was most sacred to my mother. I am not the one who should force myself to be indifferent to this wrong -- so you can then claim that no wrong has been done. This my mother and she has been wronged, and so have I!
I have a right to be outraged at this this monstrous insult. These mormons not only attempt to steal away my mother's faith, to substitute it with something she found repugnant, they denigrate my faith too which is the same as my mother's -- my mother would NEVER want to be associated with such a shallow, spiritually blind and in her view, utterly immoral, cult, and I don't want her name associated with it either and I should not have to stuff my feelings about it, and pretend they don't matter so the mormons can get away with not being responsible for the wrong they have done.
And I am still alive, my feelings should count, I have a right to be angry about this! It is bad enough I have lost my mother and my very best friend, I don't need this ugly festering hurt.
I suspect that Daniel Pearl's parents feel exactly this way too.
And what an outrage to dead-dunk Princess Diana. Her mother-in-law is the temporal head of the COE, her only husband and the father of her children will someday be, and then someday her son, and his son after him. What an insult to the people of England, these callous inconsiderate conceited mormons, to so demean and diminish the great British empire's beautiful, centuries old Christian denomination!
Ah, how nice.
As I have said on several previous threads: It’s the thought that counts: they are trying to do something nice for her. It’s not an insult for people to wish you well.
And she also received the “last rites” from a Catholic priest in the French hospitals’ emergency room.
So if either the Catholics or the LDS are correct, she will find a nice place in the after life.
Progressives.
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