(i had to look over the article quickly and change some 4-letter words...if I missed any, i’m sure the Sunday School Teacher can contact the site and convey his sense of personal offense to the victims)
bishop covering up abuse
I was abused for 6 years by my nonmember stepdad. My stepdad had also abused 2 of my friends one night. 2 weeks after he abused my friends, it all came out. My mom kicked out my stepdad and called the bishop over to our house the same night.
His great advice: he told my mom not to involve the police because this was a family matter. He said that my mom should let him back in the house and work things out. He even told my mom not to seek counseling because I would just get over it.
Right after the bishop left, thankfully my mom ignored his advice and called the police. Attending church after that was awful. Everyone decided to handle it by ignoring me. I was made to feel like I had done something wrong. The bishop punished my mom by not even helping us with one food order.
I went inactive after that. Years later, when I came back to church, my new bishop gave me that horrible book to read, its a miracle if you’re forgiven. That’s when I realized that the church thought I should have died to protect myself from being molested. I still can’t believe I stayed a couple of years after reading that book.
I was also frustrated because my voice or my mom’s voice didn’t matter when an accusation was made against a man.
Do bishops not receive any basic training on how to handle these situations? I thought they were mandatory reporters once they have knowledge of abuse.
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Posted by: freshperspective ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 01:14AMRe: bishop covering up abuse
I don’t know how long it’s been mandatory, but from what I heard from an lds family counselor, if he hears about any kind of physical abuse he has to report it immediately and bishops and other leaders of the church are supposed to report it immediately too. I’m guessing the church’s stance and policies have changed in the early 90’s. Sorry that happened to you. It’s not an uncommon occurrence believe it or not.
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Posted by: Anon for This ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 01:24AMRe: bishop covering up abuse
My father is used to be a bishop and is now an ex Mormon. He told me that when he went up the chain with abuse cases, he was told to sweep them under the rug by the Stake Presidency. When he decided that didn’t make sense, he tried to go around the Stake Presidency, and went to the Regional Representative (1980s Area Authority), who told him the same thing. He followed orders, but from how he talks about it, I know it was what eventually drove him from the church.
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Posted by: guynoirprivateeye ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 01:43AMRe: bishop covering up abuse
doesn’t ChurchCo let members know what their policies on this are?
In-Fucking-Credible
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Posted by: guynoirprivateeye ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:51AMshannon:
(I looked at this once, but don’t remem details:)
in most states, if an abuser comes to clergy, that’s considered a Protected “Privileged” relationship, and clergy’s “First” duty is to the “penitent” person who supposedly came in to confess.
this is cloudy in the LDS experience for several reasons:
LDS ‘lay ministry’ doesn’t have the independence assumed in other relationships.
On the same note, they don’t have the religious training to deal with serious matters either.
Hopefully, these exemptions will be changed Soon.
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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:58AMRight Guy . . .
But in this case, it’s not the abuser confiding in the Bishop . . . it’s the mother of the abused child who came forth. “Privilege” and confidentiality don’t apply in this case.
This topic interests me because I’ve always been a “mandatory reporter” in my profession. I also grew up Catholic before I converted to Mormonism. My brother’s best friend was sexually abused by our parish priest growing up. When he was a teenager, the boy committed suicide in his yard next door.
Who here has a copy of the current CHI? There has to be some kind of policy written down in there.
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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:22AMWow
Sweetie, I’m so sorry that happened to you.
My understanding (and I have no official source for this) is that the LDS church instituted some internal policies reminding Mormon “clergy” that they were required to report abuse to civil authorities, following the massive Catholic Church Priest Abuse scandal.
Even with the fairly new guidelines, I’m betting that many Bishops still feel inspired to handle abuse cases internally.
I’d be interested to hear from some ex-mo leadership types to see what they have to say about current policy and practice.
((((((Hugs))))))
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 02:23AM by shannon.
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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:03AMTraining?
According to bishops I have questioned about this, they receive practically no real training, and are expected to obtain the sacred spiritual “mantle” of authority to perform their duties.
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Posted by: lazarus ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:47AMRe: Training?
There is a book, but I can’t find a copy. I only find it referenced.
Preventing and Responding to Child Abuse (35665)
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Posted by: lazarus ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:54AMRe: Training?
OK, that’s just a pamphlet. But I stumbled on this page: newsroom.lds.org/article/effectiveness-of-church-approach-to-preventing-child-abuse
There is so much BS in that article, but here is my favorite:
One final point: The Church has not taken these measures to protect its reputation but to protect children. Mormons are well known for their love of children. Church leaders and members treasure the innocence of childhood and take seriously Jesus Christ’s severe condemnation of anyone who harms a child. See, for example, Matthew 18:6: “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” The LDS Church’s deep concern for children has led to a system that is highly effective at preventing abuse, protecting and helping victims, ensuring that Church clergy comply with the law, and disciplining and expelling abusers.
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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 10:01AMAnd how about THIS paragraph?!
“Despite these precautions, child abuse sometimes occurs within a member family or between two members. With over five million members in the United States alone, the Church cannot monitor its members’ private lives. The Church is not a police force; nor should it be. Local clergy hold full-time secular jobs and thus perform much of their ministry during their free time on Sundays or in one or two weekday evenings after work. There is much they don’t know about the lives of their congregation members.”
Oh dear GAWD . . . I don’t even have words.
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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 07:54PMRe: Training?
Mormons are known for their love of children? Since when?
I am going to go out on my deck and scream.
What a bunch of bullshit!
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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:08AMRe: bishop covering up abuse
The church does have a system in place that “expells” abusers if by expelled you mean they are not allowed to take sacrament for a year. They also have a system in place that disciplines abusers by requiring them to go to special disciplinary meetings that the church has no way of enforcing actual attendance (not that they should). What the church totally sucks at is having a system that hands the perps over to the cops, and has the whole weight of our Justice System drop on their heads. Church court is not a substitute for real court, any more then a Model UN represents real diplomacy.
Sexual predators need to be placed into situations were it is impossible for them to ever harm another child ever again. I am sorry if that is not very forgiving of me.
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Posted by: anon for this ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 09:29AMRe: bishop covering up abuse
Thanks for the information. Just to clarify, this happened in the early 90’s. He ended up serving over 15 years in prison.
I don’t know why I went back to church years later. I only stayed active for a couple years and then decided this wasn’t a church, for so many reasons, that I wanted to belong to. It was really easy for me to write my exit letter.
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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 09:32AMAh yes, the “Miracle of Forgiveness”
(Read: “It’s a Miracle if You’re Forgiven.”) Truly the most evil and damaging book ever published for Mormons by Mormons.
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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 07:57PMRe: Ah yes, the “Miracle of Forgiveness”
+1
Someone gave me that stupid book. I don’t think I got 10 pages into before I threw it in the trash. At the time I was a strong believer in Christ. I felt like that book was an insult to the atonement and every thing Christ stood for. I still stayed in. What was I thinking?
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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 08:04PMRe: Ah yes, the “Miracle of Forgiveness”
In future we should do a thread of nothing but mormon related sex abuse experiences that we on this board are privy to. I think it would be a difficult read, but a real eye opener to some. The way these things are handled by the church is appalling! I wonder how many threads it would take to exhaust the subject. Quite a few would be my guess.
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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 01, 2012 01:47PMYou start; we’ll follow.
Many of us got something, if not actual abuse then something totally inappropriate.
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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 10:41AMThe morg produced a DVD for bishops to watch as training.
Some might look at it if they have time. From what I gather, it tells them to call church a help line for advice if there’s a problem reported. Church lawyers answer the calls and their advice protects church pr and interests and with luck might sometimes help victims.
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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 08:05PMRe: The morg produced a DVD for bishops to watch as training.
My experience with the help line, is their major concern is if you are going to sue. They might help you if they think they can prevent a law suit.
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Posted by: Alex Degaston ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 12:35PM8:19pm on July 13, 2011
I think I have a hunch on why your Bishop counseled your mom as he did. Over the years I’ve heard many things that have caused me to believe that the LDS leaders are sometimes acting like ordinary men rather than as the pure voice and mind of a loving Lord. However in combination of the Spanier/Paterno firings at Penn State for coverups and something I heard from a very honest friend of mine at 8:19pm on July 13, 2011 regarding his own experience with church leadership sure takes the cake on me questioning the infalliability of LDS church leaders. Here’s what my friend shared with me.
One day while serving in a mid-level leadership position my friend (hereafter “FRIEND”) had an appointment with a young adult (hereafter “YA”) under his stewardship where YA shared with FRIEND an experience that happened several years earlier when YA was in mutual about YA’s Bishop (hereafter “BISHOP”). BISHOP claimed to have gotten some sort of revelation from the Lord about celestial marriage for various youth in his Ward and naturally BISHOP would have to consummate these marriages. In a nutshell BISHOP was hands-on sexually molesting underage children. The church had covered it up by even sending a Seventy up from Salt Lake to the community/Stake where YA & BISHOP lived to absolve the kids of sin and to get everyone to keep it quiet. Not even YA’s parents knew about it. Well BISHOP was ex’ed but nobody called law enforcement.
YA was really struggling with all the sorrow/emotions over what happened years earlier and never getting any reasonable amount of counseling. YA now wanted FRIEND to arrange a first phone call of YA with YA’s parents (who were living out-of-state) in order that YA could get started on the road to healing. So FRIEND called the parents and told them they ought to have an important conversation with YA. However since the dad was at work this call was postponed for an hour so both parents could be together when they talked with YA. Then FRIEND felt prompted to call the church’s Salt Lake number to get advice and repeated verbatim what YA had told him. About 10 minutes later FRIEND gets a call from a 1st Counselor who was president of a particular quorum (hereafter “Thomas”). Thomas told FRIEND to not let YA talk to their parents but that FRIEND should provide counseling/support and basically keep the matter under wraps. FRIEND disobeyed Thomas and the call happened. YA’s parents called the cops, an investigation ensued, BISHOP was finally convicted, BISHOP got his name in the paper for his conviction, and BISHOP could no longer roam freely without scrutiny amongst children in society like Jerry Sandusky could until recently.
Now the story that hasn’t seen the light of day is that Thomas was pissed at FRIEND and ordered the acting president of this quorum (hereafter “Boyd”) to have FRIEND ex’ed for not obeying his order to obstruct justice. One of the quorum members (hereafter “Good Apostle”) then came to the defense of FRIEND and said FRIEND had done the right thing and that he Good Apostle had warned them that them keeping it quiet years earlier about BISHOP would come back to bite them. And Good Apostle told them that if they ex’ed FRIEND for failing to obey Thomas’s instruction to obstruct justice over this child molester who they had ex’ed years earlier but the quorum hadn’t reported it to law enforcement then they might as well excommunicate Good Apostle too. As a result this quorum
I haven’t gotten permission from FRIEND to share this and FRIEND would probably be pissed (for a short while) if he saw this. But I’m assuming that this was the standard operating procedure for the LDS church on what to do about child molesting by any of their mid-level leaders such as BISHOP. So any LDS higherup who reads this would probably be thinking “which one of our coverups is this”. And even if the LDS bigwigs figured out who I’m talking about they’d only expose themselves as guilty if they tried any retaliation and I’m pretty sure that FRIEND doesn’t care much what Thomas, Boyd and other bigwigs think of him. Why should he? He knows they are guilty of Obstruction of Justice for the same type of crimes that got Spanier/Paterno fired and frankly Thomas/Boyd and the rest who silently went along with their own scandal of their own creation ought to look at themselves in comparison to Spanier/Paterno and think long/hard about the legacy they’re build up for themselves and anyone else whose resources they exploit during this era of continued coverup of their own complicities. Has God forgiven them? How can anyone assume so considering that there are certain legal requirements and certain moral obligations when it comes to justice for children. Frankly I think that the supermajority of mid-level LDS leaders are good men who would never molest children. However just like the Catholic church they’ve had their share of rotten apples. And just like the Catholic church they’ve done their coverups. I really don’t know how anyone can have respect for Pope Benedict XVI. The Catholic apologists can whine all they want but the simple question of “when did Carninal Bernard Law have that interview with the Boston police in the USA” ought to shut them up. And so it is with the LDS leaders too.
I certainly can with a clean conscience declare under penalty of perjury that yes indeed at 8:19pm on July 13, 2011 I heard this sad tale from FRIEND. I’m sorry that FRIEND was victimized in this manner for sincerely trying to help YA get the help that YA should’ve gotten earlier.
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Posted by: Alex Degaston ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 12:41PMUnfinished sentence
I wrote an unfinished sentence above: “As a result this quorum”
What I meant to write: “As a result this quorum dropped the matter and as far as I can tell has never repented of their moral/legal coverup.”
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Posted by: rodolfo ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:33PMRe: bishop covering up abuse
Disgusting. Reminds me of the current debacle unfolding in Vancouver, WA.
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Posted by: blindmag ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 07:23PMRe: bishop covering up abuse
I would rather give details of this when its all sorted and over with but I have a case of where keeping quiet backfired badly.
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Posted by: loli ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 08:38PMRe: bishop covering up abuse
when i was a kid my father was abusive (moderate physical & SEVERE emotional) my mom went to the bishop several times for help. but it was SOP to basically tell her to suck it up and quit whining & be more christlike and forgiving..
i’m so very sorry that happened to you!! im glad your mom had the good sense to do something about it..
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Posted by: anon this time ( )
Date: January 01, 2012 03:19PMsimilar to other stories here
Several years ago a guy who gave me the creeps was “called” to be the bishop. When asked why he chose this man, the SP said he “received” his name while in the Celestial room of the temple.
Fast forward. After 1 1/2 years this man is released. He divorces (they were the ‘perfect’ family—strictly held to the letter of the law—100% seminary attendance, no PG or R movies, absolutely no caffeine even chocolate, yada yada—but venomous inside) and their house is foreclosed. We later find out that this man has a restraining order to stay away from children, particularly boys!!!
We’re told nothing directly from TSCC leadership. What we learn is from friends of this man’s family.
At the time, I had a young son who had been alone with this man on several occasions while the man was bishop. I questioned my son and found that my son was not a victim. He had thought the man was strange and avoided him. Smart kid. However, I met the SP (whom I thought was a friend) on the following Sunday, and (not knowing whether or not my son was a victim) refused to warn me or give me any info even though he knew we might have been victimized. He walked away. He protected this perp, not the innocent. SOB.
I still don’t know what happened exactly with this bishop. If the police were involved, they never questioned my son. I don’t know how the restraining order came about. I do know this man’s own son won’t have anything to do with him. So much for the perfect family.
exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,379543,379556
That’s when I realized that the church thought I should have died to protect myself from being molested.
What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?
"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982
"
Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life.
Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82
"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65
"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196
"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.
"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965
"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155
"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.