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To: grey_whiskers
Oh, incidentally (not incendiary) your post failed to address what I intended to be one of the main points about my earlier post: which is that the source which talks about Job, *incorrectly* claimed that Job was the only one who suffered from an illness caused by Satan *without being demon possessed* : Saul the King before David was afflicted by a demon, which affliction was relieved by David's music. The point I was stressing wasn't whether or not the Demon got permission (that is common to all Biblical accounts) but whether Job was the only one it happened to.

The article that I used was in response to John Wimber's who "saw demons behind many physical illnesses, and most emotional problems, entering into people, both lost and saved, in varying degrees, either for "possession" or "oppression," so as to control all or some aspects of their lives." the article continues "There is no biblical basis for the notion that demons are free to cause illnesses outside the context of full demon possession. [And the power of Satan to enter and "possess" souls uninvited; i.e., at the whim of the demon, was ended at Christ's resurrection.] The only case in the Bible of a person who suffered from an illness caused by Satan without being demon possessed, is that of Job".

When you mention that Saul was "afflicted" by a demon, in Samuel 16:14, we are told that the spirit of the Lord had left Saul and an "evil spirit from the Lord tormented him". This does not say Saul was suffering an illness, but that he was "tormented" and David's music relieved him. In verse 23 of Samuel 16, "Whenever the spirit from God came on Saul, David would take up his lyre and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him." In Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible, we read:

    And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul,.... See 1 Samuel 16:14 though the word evil is not in the text here; wherefore Abarbinel thinks that this here was the Spirit of God, which stirred up in him thoughts of divine things, put him in mind of what God had said, that he had rejected him from being king, and had rent the kingdom from him; and this filled him with grief and trouble, and he became melancholy:

    that David took an harp, and played with his hands; upon it; and, as Josephus (r) says, at the same time sung hymns and psalms; made use both of vocal and instrumental music:

    so Saul was refreshed, and was well; became cheerful, his grief was removed, his black and gloomy apprehensions of things were dispersed, and he was cured of his melancholy disorder for the present:

    and the evil spirit departed from him: at least for a while; he had his fits and intervals; of the effects of music in a natural way; see Gill on 1 Samuel 16:16, though no doubt the music of David was more than natural, being attended with the power and blessing of God, in order to raise his fame and credit at court.

The gist of the criticism of Wimber was his teachings that nearly all sickness and most emotional problems were a result of demons entering into both saved and unsaved people to control and oppress them. The author was stating that there is no Biblical basis for the notion that demons are free to cause illnesses outside the context of full demon possession. With the example of Job, Satan was permitted by God to afflict Job. And this "would indicate that Satan and his demons have no power to inflict illnesses in the ordinary course of events. To treat illnesses on the basis of a demon needing to be expelled from a particular organ, as Wimber taught, is an idea derived from pagan religious cults and/or the priestcraft of Rome, not from the Bible. Believers will certainly do battle with the wiles and temptations wrought by Satan, "but nowhere in the New Testament is temptation resisted by a process of commanding demons to loose their hold or leave a Christian's mind or body. Satan is resisted by being denied success in the temptation. Or if he mounts an attack of depressive suggestions, he is resisted as the believer strives to keep hold of the comfort and promises of God's Word."

In the case of Saul, it is STILL not a demon, of its own will, afflicting a person and not possessing them. This was the point of the article then and I do not think they made an error by speaking of Job being the only example of illness afflicted by Satan. Whatever Saul was troubled by - an evil spirit from God - it does not say it was Satan. In the common Hebrew text, the word "evil" is not there. In Wesley's Notes, he says, "16:23 Departed - Namely, for a season. And the reason of this success, may be, partly natural, and partly, supernatural, respecting David; whom God designed by this means to bring into favour with the king, and so to smooth the way for his advancement." So men who teach like Wimber that demons are the cause of all suffering and they must be "bound" in order to heal people, is simply not backed up by Scripture.

I don't know if this will get you to read the whole article or not, but it IS interesting what gets passed off as Biblical in the realm of "faith-healers" and their ilk. Have a good night!

846 posted on 03/03/2012 10:40:58 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums
You and I are apparently talking past each other. No animosity, but I prefer to spend my time on FR on other things.

Have a good night.

847 posted on 03/03/2012 10:54:22 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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