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To: boatbums; Quix; metmom
Wimber's doctrine of Demonology was thoroughly unscriptural; he saw demons behind many physical illnesses, and most emotional problems, entering into people, both lost and saved, in varying degrees, either for "possession" or "oppression," so as to control all or some aspects of their lives. "There is no biblical basis for the notion that demons are free to cause illnesses outside the context of full demon possession. [And the power of Satan to enter and "possess" souls uninvited; i.e., at the whim of the demon, was ended at Christ's resurrection.] The only case in the Bible of a person who suffered from an illness caused by Satan without being demon possessed, is that of Job" (Masters, p. 86).

Hmmm, I can think of a couple of counterexamples.

For instance Saul (Jewish king, not the Tarsus New Testament dude) was tormented by an evil spirit, for which David would play music to grant him relief.

(That's 1 Samuel 16...interestingly enough, recall that earlier in his life, Saul had had the Holy Spirit come upon him to the point that he prophesied (1 Samuel 10)...but through disobedience, the Spirit of God left him.

Second example, 1 Kings 22:20ff. God asks the spirits who will entice King Ahab to enter a particular battle in order that he be killed. In verse 22 a spirit says that "'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

Recall also how Ahab was p*ssy-whipped by Queen Jezebel who preferred the prophets of Baal to the prophets of the Lord, and how Ahab once suborned perjury in order to kill an innocent man to gain possession of his vineyard.

Lessons: yup, demons can go and oppress or fool people -- or at the least, disobedient Old Testament Jewish Kings.

Don't be a disobedient Old Testament Jewish King: and, for safety's sake, strive to be obedient anyway: King David committed egregious sins, and though God hid his sin and did not hold it against him, he still had one of his sons rape one of his daughters, had a brother of that daughter rebel against him and depose him, sealing the rebellion by having sex with David's wives (concubines) in the sight of all Israel, etc., etc.

And then you have the demon repeatedly killing one poor woman's husbands on her (successive) honeymoons in the Apocryphal book of Tobit: and the archangel Raphael came to the aid of the woman and her (newest) husband to drive the demon away.

And speaking of angels, you have in Daniel, where he begins to pray, and the angel Gabriel sent by God had to fight the "prince of the kingdom of Persia" for three weeks until the archangel Michael came to help him -- and recall that Daniels righteousness was such that one of the later prophets (Ezekiel) referred to him by name as an example, saying, "...even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD."

Therefore, we can be reasonably confident that Daniel's sinfulness played no role in Gabriel having to fight off the prince of Persia...

Much food for thought.

Cheers!

719 posted on 02/29/2012 8:48:45 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

IIRC,

There’s a case or 3 in Christ’s ministry in the Gospels and maybe one or two in Paul’s.

I don’t have the refs and don’t care to bother searching them out. I know there are at least some examples in the NT.


725 posted on 02/29/2012 9:02:52 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: grey_whiskers

And,

imho,

IF anyone thinks that John Wimber was on the dark side

they are simply ignorant of the man

ignorant of his ministry

and

ignorant of the facts.


726 posted on 02/29/2012 9:03:54 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: grey_whiskers; boatbums
Lessons: yup, demons can go and oppress or fool people -- or at the least, disobedient Old Testament Jewish Kings.

Except that what bb quoted was......"There is no biblical basis for the notion that demons are free to cause illnesses outside the context of full demon possession. [And the power of Satan to enter and "possess" souls uninvited; i.e., at the whim of the demon, was ended at Christ's resurrection.]

Sometimes they were permitted by God to do so, but in the cases you mentioned, Gods' hand was in those. Nor were the examples of demons causing illness.

727 posted on 02/29/2012 9:06:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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