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To: metmom
It's either all or nothing. Either all the gifts have passed, or none of them have. Cherry picking leads to error. That said, I see a problem with people depending too much on signs. It may be necessary in some circumstances, but the verse in 1 Corinthians 13 which people use to say the sign gifts have passed is way too loose an interpretation.

It isn't saying that all the gifts to the church or the fruit of the Holy Spirit - which also includes love - will cease. I Corinthians 13:8-10 says, "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.". So love never fails, but tongues - the supernatural power of tongues - will cease just as prophecies and partial knowledge will. Why Paul spoke of tongues and not healing, I don't know other than it is something God always will do. Because he said "prophecies" and "knowledge" is why I believe it is speaking of the completed revelation of God - the Bible. No new prophecy or unrevealed knowledge was omitted from it. Some people even say that tongues is some kind of "heavenly" language, the language of angels, but I know it can't be that simply because Paul said it would "be stilled" or stop. Obviously we will all speak some kind of language in heaven, but it will not be the same as the tongues in I Cor. 13.

However, I do agree that too much emphasis is placed on the "showy" outward demonstrations of tongues - which Paul said was the least of the gifts. Each person will answer to God for however he uses the gifts God gives and all of them are for the ultimate glory of God.

147 posted on 02/19/2012 10:48:49 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums
So love never fails, but tongues - the supernatural power of tongues - will cease just as prophecies and partial knowledge will. Why Paul spoke of tongues and not healing, I don't know other than it is something God always will do. Because he said "prophecies" and "knowledge" is why I believe it is speaking of the completed revelation of God - the Bible. No new prophecy or unrevealed knowledge was omitted from it.

OK, I see the reasoning there. That makes sense.

153 posted on 02/20/2012 8:39:46 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: boatbums; metmom
I agree. Compare 1 Cor. 12:7 with Eph. 4:12-16 and 1 Cor. 13:8-13.

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the stature of the FULNESS OF CHRIST." Eph. 4:12,13. Also, we know that in 2 Tim. 3:15, it is the Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation. That the man of God may be PERFECT, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim. 3:17.

If the Scriptures can make a man PERFECT, and these gifts were given to make us into a PERFECT MAN, and when that which is PERFECT is come, then I believe it is the PERFECT WORD of God, that Paul is speaking of in 1 Cor. 13. When God's perfect word has been completed. Which it has. And why in Revelation, Jesus Christ warns that if any man take away or add to this book, his part will be taken out of the book of life. "This book" refers to the whole word of God; not just Revelation. I believe the Book of Revelation is the end of God's Revelation to mankind, for His reasons and purposes. His Word has a beginning and an ending. IOW, that which is PERFECT HAS come: God's complete Word to mankind. All that He would have us know. There is now no reason for prophesy, or tongues, or partial knowledge. But love and charity never fail.

My opinion only. :)

154 posted on 02/20/2012 9:06:07 AM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: boatbums
It isn't saying that all the gifts to the church or the fruit of the Holy Spirit - which also includes love - will cease. I Corinthians 13:8-10 says, "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.".

So love never fails, but tongues - the supernatural power of tongues - will cease just as prophecies and partial knowledge will. Why Paul spoke of tongues and not healing, I don't know other than it is something God always will do.

Because he said "prophecies" and "knowledge" is why I believe it is speaking of the completed revelation of God - the Bible. No new prophecy or unrevealed knowledge was omitted from it.

Sounds like a flying leap of illogic, to me. In I Cor 13 . . . INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE CEASED for that passage of Scripture to have been FULFILLED. Therefore, using I Cor 13 as a justification to claim ANY CESSATION of Holy Spirit’s gifts is GROSSLY BOGUS.

Perhaps folks are different where you are . . . but all the even authentic Christians I know are NOT omniscient, like God—about ANYthing. They don’t even know ALL the FULL KNOWLEDGE about THEMSELVES! I doubt you do, either.

Some people even say that tongues is some kind of "heavenly" language, the language of angels, but I know it can't be that simply because Paul said it would "be stilled" or stop. Obviously we will all speak some kind of language in heaven, but it will not be the same as the tongues in I Cor. 13.

Uhhhhhh . . I don’t think that assumption is well thought-out. Paul is talking about the gifting of tongues and of tongues and interpretation as gifts of Holy Spirit for the Church Age being ended—NOT necessarily any of the language(s) tongues speakers used—including any “Heavenly languages.”

However, I do agree that too much emphasis is placed on the "showy" outward demonstrations of tongues - which Paul said was the least of the gifts. Each person will answer to God for however he uses the gifts God gives and all of them are for the ultimate glory of God.

Plenty true.

Just as folks where buttons were labeled unChristian began to wear flashy Chinese frog knot closures . . . Man has an infinite capacity to be vain-glorious; self-righteous; arrogant; given to grand standing; power-mongering; !!CONTROLLING!!; preening; prancing; pontificating; etc. etc. etc. The counterfeit never negates the authentic. It only makes the counterfeiter subject to judgment.

176 posted on 02/21/2012 8:51:14 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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