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Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/14/2012 4:00:49 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.(I Samuel 28:5-7)
I have no problem believing that God sovereignly granted revival in the 1960′s -70′s, renewing faith in the reality of Jesus, introducing church people to Jesus for the first time, and baptizing multitudes from all walks of life, and over the spectrum of denominations in the Holy Ghost. The movement became known as the Charismatic renewal.
Why not? Didn’t He promise us that …
… it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:(Acts 2:17-18)
I myself came to Christ at the end of the 1970′s, in a charismatic church. But the critical question of any movement is not one of the beginning, but of the end…how does it end?
Of course in one sense the Charismatic movement never ends, for it didn’t begin in the 1960′s nor at Azusa street, but in Jerusalem. It shall never end, being established by Jesus, clothed in the Holy Spirit and known as the church.
But the charismatic movement as a historical reality, that sovereign move of God of 40 years ago,which turned so many to Jesus and the Spirit in a godless day, has been co-opted by it’s “leaders” and seems to be going the way of King Saul.
Saul seriously disobeyed God at several key points in his life, doing what he “felt” was right, rather than adhering to the Word of God. He wouldn’t go by the Word, but by “feelings”. God called that rebellion and even “witchcraft”,
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.(I Samuel 15:22-23)
One of the problems with the Charismatic movement, was that it was beset with a variety of false teachers. Oral Roberts, with his seed faith, prosperity teaching. New Thought influenced teachers such as Kenneth Hagin and Copeland, who taught that we are all “little gods”, and could create our own reality by our words.
Who can forget the “deliverance movement” which was basically superstitious hysteria, but brought millions into bondage? How about the attempt by some to bring about order, imposing the cultic and oppressive “shepherding movement”?
False teaching imposes a terrible toll, it breaks down the defenses and corrupts the soul. Doctrine, good or bad, is not insignificant, it is of critical importance.
The Prophetic movement heralded by the false Kansas City Prophets and John Wimber, promoted experience over doctrine, and induced millions into “spiritual drunkenness” and gnostic mysticism.
These are just a sampling of the influences which flooded into the wake of millions of people coming to a living faith in Jesus and an awareness of the Holy Spirit. Like an accumulation of toxins in a body they have had an eroding effect on the church.
Time fails me to go into the other excesses such as the unbiblical ecumenism, the Toronto and Pensacola movements, neo apostles and prophets, and spiritual warfare.
The common theme of all of these excesses is that the charismatics have always been strongly urged not to judge! Discernment has been ridiculed and criticized! These things have taken a toll.
The charismatic movement is in danger of ending like Saul…
At the end of Saul’s life, he went into the occult. God wasn’t speaking to him anymore. Samuel was by now dead, although Saul consistently ignored him whilst alive. Saul had chased David away. killed the priests and found himself in real trouble.
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
He who had once purged the land of witches and wizards, now sought out a witch, that he might commune with the now dead Samuel!
Benny Hinn is just one Charismatic leader who has testified of his own necromancy,(communication with the dead). He tells os his frequent visits to Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb, to get an impartation of “her anointing”!
“One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As—as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I—I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. … I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. … And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You—you—you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?”11Benny Hinn sermon, Double Portion Anointing, Part #3, Orlando Christian Center, Orlando, Fla., April 7, 1991. From the series, Holy Ghost Invasion. TV#309, tape on file.
Familiarity with the Word of God would deliver Hinn’s followers, for God says He hates the sin of necromancy. Isaiah tells us that those who seek anything from the dead have no light in them,
When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn(Isaiah 8:9-12)
The flavor of the day in Charismatic circles is Bethel church in Redding California, headed by a Word Faith, Prophetic movement, pastor , Bill Johnson. At His Bethel School of ministry, he teaches students to “honor the Generals of revival”, that is leaders such as Smith Wigglesworth, Aimee Semple Mcpherson, Evan Roberts, and others.
“Honoring” them to Johnson means compiling a vast collection of their books and artifacts,and opening a “generals library” for charismatics to visit. But like Hinn, Johnson also believes in visiting their tombs, and literally “soaking” the “anointing” by being in the presence of their graves.
Bethel Students “Soaking Anointing” Off of Tombs !
Those who discern are seeing countless other evidences that like Saul, the Charismatic movement has gone into the occult, for false prophecy, dream interpretation, necromancy,spiritual drunkenness are all characteristics, not of christian spirituality but “the delusion”, a revival of deceiving spirits that Paul warned about, as a consequence of rejection of the Word of God.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.( 2 Thess 2:8-12)
Your post made it sound like tongues etc.
was unique in all Christendom on such scores.
It’s not.
It’s just the easiest target to rant about.
Ohhhhhhhhh perhaps like the tongues speakers and other Pentecostals y'all's hostilities are so fiercely directed at?
What a classic double standard!
If y'all can't conceive that satan and his legions of demons are NOT involved in convincing folks that Holy Spirit took a vacation at the end of Revelation . . . then I have no idea what you think he and his fallen angels and demons do 24/7.
Sit around playing hearts?
When St Paul talks quite plainly in I Cor 14 about PRAYING IN TONGUES . . . that his intellect doesn't understand and God only understands . . . and y'all refuse to realize that denying Paul's statements on such scores as even being there where they plainly are . . . how else can an observant person label such a position than
UNBIBLICAL?
You are a fine one to talk about foolishness, caww. Your post to me showed a lack of comprehension - and your silly comment about the hospitals, etc.
It was indeed laughable!! While you thought it was serious.
Thanks, Quix. Some think McArthur has the answers and not God’s Word. Yep, that’s laughable to me, also. McArthur may have the ‘letter’ but not the ‘Spirit of The Word’.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I suggest you don’t respond to a certain poster - too thin skinned.
OK. Best I ignore certain posters. Thanks.
Some of us look at afflictions and infirmities as the refiner’s fire.
There are lessons learned through affliction which I cannot imagine can be learned any other way.
The problem with the name it and claim it theology that everyone should be prosperous and healthy, simply does not fit with us learning to depend on God for everything.
Pentecostals for the most part see affliction as something to be delivered from, not something to overcome. Expecting health and wealth as our *right* is nothing more than entitlement mentality which has crept into and corrupted the church, the thinking being that since we are God’s children, we have the RIGHT to claim (demand) deliverance from anything unpleasant or uncomfortable.
Coming face to face with my own mortality when it really sank in to me what I was facing without divine intervention as this condition progressed and worsened was an experience almost as life changing as my salvation.
It had a way of resetting my priorities and stripping away the hold the world has on my heart and soul, as all the bobbles and trinkets which Satan dangles in front of us to distract us from our walk with God are shown to be the meaningless junk they are.
I see this entire journey with this condition bringing me to a place of being filled with the Spirit that was so life changing that I’d rather live with this condition if it helps keep me this focused on God than without it and drift from Him. There have actually been times where in this new walk with God and closeness of the Spirit that I don’t care if I ever get healed from this as long as I can remain in this level of fellowship with God.
I thought this condition was very limiting and I resented not being able to do stuff, but this past summer, I drove cross country with my daughter and overcame that. It would not beat me and hold me hostage because I am free in Christ. It will NOT stop me from living my life.
In this world we will have tribulation but Jesus has overcome the world. And I can overcome in the midst of affliction which I could not do if I were delivered from it.
I would still like to be healed from it but no longer petulantly demand it and will continue to let His grace be sufficient so that He is glorified by being strong in my weakness.
Don’t you know - the ‘gift’ shop was closed way back then because of the Jews lack of interest./s
I’d thought my responses were pretty kosher.
Guess it’s harder to be strictly kosher and respond meaningfully than I’d thought. Sigh.
Thx for your exhortations.
I see this entire journey with this condition bringing me to a place of being filled with the Spirit that was so life changing that I’d rather live with this condition if it helps keep me this focused on God than without it and drift from Him. There have actually been times where in this new walk with God and closeness of the Spirit that I don’t care if I ever get healed from this as long as I can remain in this level of fellowship with God.
PRAISE THE LORD! YEA.
LOL.
Sigh.
What's silly about it?
In the book of Acts, the signs and wonders were for validating the message to unbelievers or showing the apostles that salvation was for the Samaritans, Gentiles, or any other group the Jews had initially excluded.
So, what's the issue over people going into hospitals to do the healings of those who are on their deathbeds, where they can be verified medically? What better testimony of the power of God to unbelievers to bring them to Him?
Jesus said, freely you have received, freely give.
So the faith healers who live high on the hog on the donations of their followers are no different than the the pope for how he lives.
Freely receive = freely give = going about doing good just as Jesus did, not expecting any recompense or attention. Let them go to hospitals and prove their gifting.
It's not like anyone's simply repeating the mistakes of the church in Corinth or anything, is it?
In reference to Mark 16:17-18,.....“these signs shall follow them that believe”?
These signs were ....’fulfilled by the apostles ....’and it was ....’to the Apostles’.... that the Lord gave special gifts.......(2 Cor. 12:12; Acts 2:43; 4:33; 5:12, 15; 19:12)
- The Apostles cast out devils...(Acts 2: 1-4)
- The Apostles spoke in new tongues, the languages of the hearer.... (Acts 2:1-4)
- The Apostles laid hands on the sick and they recovered....without fail!..... (Acts 3:6-8; 9:40-41; 28:7-9)
Further, the gift of tongues was ‘a sign to the nation Israel’ that God was doing a new thing by extending the gospel to ALL people and creating His church composed of both Jews and Gentiles..... (1 Cor. 14:20-22; Isa. 28:11-13)
- It was a temporary sign..... (1 Cor. 13:8)
- It ceased when the nation Israel rejected it and was judged...... (Isa. 28:13)........(Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. and the Jews were scattered to the nations. )
- No one can do the specific apostolic signs today, and I believe those who claim to do them do not do in the manner that we see recorded in the book of acts because:
..... No ones raising the dead like Peter did in Acts 9.
..... No one is healing after the fashion of Acts 3:6-8.
......There are no “healing services” or “signs and wonders crusades” in the book of Acts.
......There were no spirit slayings or spiritual drunkenness.
...... The apostles did not have signs of healing such as fire or vibrations or electricity in their hands.
.......Not once did the apostles attempt to heal someone and fail.
The miracles recorded in the book of Acts are simply not being reproduced in churches today as was done by the Apostles.
However, though the apostolic sign gifts ceased the Lord has continued to do miraclulous things throughout the church age:
- He has saved countless souls from the power of Satan.
- He has supernaturally answered countless prayers.
- He has supernaturally supplied countless needs.
- He has given supernatural strength and encouragement and wisdom to countless men and women in every conceivable situation and difficulty.
- He has healed countless people in answer to prayer in accordance with James 5.
- He has miraculously established countless churches in the devil’s own territory!.......... and many other things!
Though I’m fully convinced of where I stand I do believe we are seeing and will see more of counterfeiting all these gifts...just as it was written would be and is today...but it will esculate and many will be deceived by those who teach and preach it.
John 9:1-7 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
6 Having said these things, he spit on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud 7 and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.
In order for that man to have been born blind and lived that long in that state, it had to have been God's will.
We also need to remember the story of Lazarus. He was sick and not only not healed but died.
And the lame beggar who was laid at the Temple who Peter encountered and healed in the name of Jesus. Chances are, Jesus walked by that guy plenty of times on the way to the Temple. Timothy was sickly, Paul had his thorn in the FLESH and as often as I hear healing preachers try to explain away that it wasn't a PHYSICAL affliction, they still have to get around the *in the FLESH * part.
Romans 8:35-39 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Who needs that exhortation if we can just demand what is our right and get what we want all the time?
Reality is, reality does not line up with present day Pentecostal/charismatic theology. They all sounds like Jobs "friends" to me.
Yeah, you’re right.
It’s all about love, which seems to be seriously lacking today.
Preach it, sister.
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