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To: vladimir998
You know you are shooting yourself in the foot. My attacks on protestants for abandoning and sneering at the patrimony of the ancient and undivided Church are more effective when it is clear that I am not a Latin. And drawing a sharp distinction is important.

By way of brief answer: Note that Abp. Seraphim was suspended, the Greek priest cited was defrocked.

It is precisely because the "pagan" (actually mixed religion -- some of the Mongol hordes were pagan, some Buddhist, some Nestorian Christian) Mongols did not interfere with religion -- the Mongol Empire was the first large-scale political entity with general religious toleration -- that Nevsky allowed Novgorod to become tributary to the Mongols, but fought the Teutonic Knights, who were blessed by the Pope to reduce the "schismatics" to Papal jurisdiction. Actually not fighting the Mongols, whose only interests were worldly is a sign of Nevsky's sanctity as much as fighting the Crusaders.

Yes, the last catechism shifted a lot of teaching 'eastward', but for over 1000 years, the "beatific vision" stood at the height of Latin teaching on salvation, and the basis for the veneration of relics as the bodies of deified men and women was missing. (If you teach the same, why are your bishops giving away relics?)

38 posted on 02/04/2012 7:06:04 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: The_Reader_David

Not sure what you mean. Several years ago, the casket of Therese of Liesieuw was exhibited at a convent near my city. Famous is the uncorrupted boy of Bernardette. We are not to blame for the protestant attitudes of some of our bishops. And the beatific vision is no more than a theological expression of John’s vision of the New Jerusalem.


41 posted on 02/04/2012 9:58:28 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: The_Reader_David

You wrote:

“You know you are shooting yourself in the foot.”

Pointing out your errors in no way injures any part of me. Getting history right doesn’t effect my ability to walk in the least.

“My attacks on protestants for abandoning and sneering at the patrimony of the ancient and undivided Church are more effective when it is clear that I am not a Latin.”

Attack Protestantism all you want. I do it often enough. Your effectiveness or lack thereof has more to do with knowledge and preparation than your religious affiliation.

“And drawing a sharp distinction is important.”

Being correct on the facts is the bedrock of making sharp distinctions. You failed with both. Try again.

“By way of brief answer: Note that Abp. Seraphim was suspended, the Greek priest cited was defrocked.:”

By way of brief rejoinder: how does their pedophilia show the Orthodox DON’T have a problem with pedophilia?

“It is precisely because the “pagan” (actually mixed religion — some of the Mongol hordes were pagan, some Buddhist, some Nestorian Christian) Mongols did not interfere with religion — the Mongol Empire was the first large-scale political entity with general religious toleration — that Nevsky allowed Novgorod to become tributary to the Mongols, but fought the Teutonic Knights, who were blessed by the Pope to reduce the “schismatics” to Papal jurisdiction. Actually not fighting the Mongols, whose only interests were worldly is a sign of Nevsky’s sanctity as much as fighting the Crusaders.”

Nevsky has somethings to recommend about him, but he was still kowtowed to pagan Mongols. Not much else he could do I suppose. His hero status among Russians is in sharp contrast to many of the actual actions of his life, however.

“Yes, the last catechism shifted a lot of teaching ‘eastward’, but for over 1000 years, the “beatific vision” stood at the height of Latin teaching on salvation,”

That doesn’t change the Church’s teaching on theosis on bit.

“and the basis for the veneration of relics as the bodies of deified men and women was missing.”

No, actually it wasn’t. You’ve never read Council of Trent (session XXV) have you? Yeah, it shows.

“(If you teach the same, why are your bishops giving away relics?)”

What does the one have to do with the other? We have given relics back to Orthodox churches (relics stolen by the Crusaders and others) and have given the Orthodox FREE churches no less.

Now, you were wrong on all counts. Deal with it.


43 posted on 02/04/2012 12:49:02 PM PST by vladimir998
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