Posted on 02/03/2012 6:31:03 AM PST by NYer
I am married to a Korean national. I mention this not just because it is cool (and it is cool) but I’ve learned quite a few things about my Faith from being close to someone of a very different culture.
Because of my wife’s nationality I know quite a few Koreans by association. They come from education backgrounds that make your humble scribe feel quite inferior, or at least I’d feel that way if they weren’t so humble about it. And one of the core components of this education is learning the English language.
To me they do indeed speak English well. Some can even speak without the hint of a Korean accent. I know firsthand how difficult this is given my own extremely difficult time learning Korean.
(What does this have to do with the Magisterium? Please bear with me).
However despite their best efforts I have come to notice that no matter how fluent they were certain ways they would speak seemed…well..awkward. For example, almost to a man, when one of my wife’s friends say something like they were sick yesterday they would say “My condition was not good.” This was true regardless of how well any of them spoke English. I pointed it out to my wife and she noted that it was more or less a direct translation of the Korean expression for having been sick in the past. Despite the quality of their English, they were still speaking Korean using English words.
Another time my wife was telling me about her college days and describing a particular student and his relationship to the students in her freshman group. There literally is no English word for the particular position that this person held. It is something of a cross between a mentor, a Resident Assistant, and a full blown teacher. The attempt of my wife to explain this concept actually took a bit of time, and my above description is my best attempt to explain this position.
What I’m trying to say is that one’s culture has a powerful effect on one’s exposure to concepts as well as how one is going to express themselves. The ability to communicate with one another is heavily dependent on the concepts being discussed and the modes of expression that the communicants share. The greater the disparity in either, the more communication it takes to attempt to bridge the gap.
At one point this started me thinking about the Bible. The books are written a long time ago by a culture with wildly different concepts and modes of expression than we have in modern English. And the New Testament was a translation of one culture into another, from the Jewish culture and language (Aramaic) to the Common Greek. Not only are these cultures different from ours (the Jewish and the Greek) but both cultures have grown and developed over time.
Just to give one example is the notion of “brother” in Jewish culture. The original Aramaic that Jesus and His followers spoke had no concept of “cousin.” To describe the relationship of one cousin to another they would say something like, “He is the son of my father’s brother.” Given how wordy this is they would simplify it to “he is my brother.”
Now someone might object to this by pointing out that the Common Greek had a word for cousin and if the authors wanted to say “cousin” they would have. But to me this doesn’t fly for two reasons. First, that knowledge of a language does not bestow the modes of expression the language uses. As in my first example, the Korean expressing that they were sick still use the Korean wording of the concept rendered into English. Second, given that Jesus and his people used Aramaic to communicate, it is actually more accurate to have a word for word translation, complete with ambiguity, rather than to impose a meaning on the words by trying to translate the wording into something more friendly to the new language.
These things led me to realize that if the Body of Christ has to go at Faith with a Bible Alone approach we are doomed. The time, culture and language separations are a huge obstacle to getting at the actual meaning of the texts, with all the nuance and subtlety that comes with theological understanding and the development of those concepts. This is readily apparent with our Protestant brethren, who continue to split into numerous sects and sects within sects.
The Bible is a product of the times and cultures that produced it. Despite the fact that it is the inerrant Word of God it still uses human culture and language to communicate to us. And because of the limits of both human language and cultural concepts, the existence of the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition simply make sense.
Our Lord provided us with an authoritative body that can express the Truths of Revelation over time and cultures without error. A body that has the authority to interpret the Sacred Texts and present them to all cultures and times. A body that lives and breathes with the cultures in time but stands above them. That such a body, the Magisterim, exists is not only to my mind beneficial, but necessary for preserving the Word of God and revealing the Word to us using the concepts and modes of communication we use.
My exposure to a foreign culture as different as the Korean one only illustrates the need for the Sacred Tradition, and the need for the authority of the Magisterium to guarantee the transmission of that Tradition. There is more to the Truth of the Word than our cultures and languages can transmit. The Magisterium exists to teach us in the ways we communicate today, and will exist to teach the cultures of the future. Through the Magisterium we overcome the Tower of Babel now and in the future.
Then Jesus being a "branch" makes no sense, either.
You don't get to have it both ways. It IS a valid possibility under Protestant interpretive norms. I disagree, but it is valid.
I personally see this as two parallel statements (enmity between The Woman and Satan, and enmity between Her Seed (why on earth would God bother to give the Savior a title drawing attention to his mother) and Satan.
Thankfully, the gift of the Magesterium protects us from the intellectual inbreeding that becomes so enamoured of itself it begins to accept absurdities on the level of “King-James-only-ism.”
May God Always Bless You And Keep You in Our Lord Jesus Christ!
You put respecters of a person and Also the Statement by Our Glorious Lord on John The Baptist on quite a level.
The respector of persons in the epistles is about people who come into the Church if I remember right about poor or rich in regards to treating members at a local assembly. Which can not be taken as an absolutism in every category. Especially where God puts otherwise.
Why would God put HONOR Thy Mother and Father in the commandments in scripture. Without a Doubt God is telling Us our immediate family is more important than strangers. That is not to mean not to be fair to others of course but there are priorities in life. Obviously it is to take care and be respectful. If everyone took care of their parents properly most of the problems in even today’s society would not arise with seniors.
To say the least He of all people is more bound to this Commandment than any other person that ever existed on the planet. One for being God who instituted it. Second for being the Sinless Lamb of God who could never sin as such. So how much more so to do it absolutely right better than any man. Especially a King who honors his mother.
I amazed when people just merely mention like it was nothing to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. Did you ever talk to a Mother who lost a son by beating and then death? How about a woman who knew this was going to happen before her own child is born?
Thirty Three Years Before! What a burden to say the least.
The prophecy of Simeon:
"And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that out of many hearts thoughts may be revealed" (Luke II: 34-35).
How great was the shock to Mary's Heart at hearing the sorrowful words, in which holy Simeon told the bitter Passion and death of her sweet Jesus, since in that same moment she realized in her mind all the insults, blows, and torments which the impious men were to offer to the Redeemer of the world.
But a still sharper sword pierced her soul. It was the thought of men's ingratitude to her beloved Son. Now consider that because of other's sins you are unhappily among the ungrateful while this is going on for last three years of your son's life.
How about some on these threads who ridicule and marginalize her like she was a mere waif. A great mere mechanism without emotions or real worth in the cog wheels of life in the most important history reality story that ever existed.
I am amazed when my evangelical brothers and sisters act callous towards our dear lady. Oh she asks Jesus for a miracle at a wedding then is ridiculed by some over the years on these threads. Wow! Like we have the right!
She knows what is before her in her future for what her son the Savior will have to endure for all. What great heart ache her heart ached. Then at a joyous occasion she asks for happiness within a request for wine.
Some of us read like it is only a story. No! It is a true life lived for every main person in the story! We can not just act like it was not much because the so called mention of Mary on the word in the Gospel story is not enough to warrant real importance by some. NO! How much a real heart ached Horror of a life lived reality for this poor woman.
I stand on his honor and his honor is on His Mother and His word. His honor to His mother is more real than any other human honor because it is his words not ours that are more important. He can never falter in his honor.
"Honor your Father and your Mother, that your days may be long in the land which The Lord your God gives you." (Exodus 20:12)
Whether you know it or not you belittle the Lord’s Honor. He believes in the Family function more than any other who ever existed. He invented it that’s why!
Now lets examine The great John The Baptist. First I would like to point out that I could not even touch or do what the baptist did. What John did I am in awe. But when we compare the great Holy acting people of the Gospels it is like comparing great heroes to heroes but some go through even more becoming greater heroes.
Funny thing about God after He declares what You ultimately say about John the baptist. He is showing great fortitude and mercy towards John because before it was said after John doubted who Jesus was in salvation history.
Luke 7:
Jesus and John the Baptist
18 John’s disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19 he sent them to the Lord to ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?’”
21 At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22 So he replied to the messengers, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”
Nowhere do you ever see Mary doubt Jesus at all as Adult Savior.
But John who hears God's voice from the Father.
Matthew 3: The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
John the Baptist hears God the FATHER's Voice and Sees The HOLY SPIRIT as a DOVE. How could he doubt? He saw and heard in the God given Supernatural. Yet He doubts. I hate having to compare.
I do not believe that What Jesus said means more honored than Mary. I believe it was a colloquialism. His main point was about the kingdom of Heaven. A saying showing a point. Just like when the Lord showed about cutting off our hands, eyes and hands if we sinned. It was about how bad sin really is in our lives. It is not an absolute.
By the way I was named after John the Baptist, John The Apostle and my Uncle John. I am in Holy awe of the two famous Johns. One was beheaded. One was put in vat of boiling oil and survived.
Freeper Regards!
Praise Jesus and Hail Mary as The Angel declared!
All Glory to God in The Highest!!
May God Always Bless You And Keep You in Our Lord Jesus Christ!
You put respecters of a person and Also the Statement by Our Glorious Lord on John The Baptist on quite a level.
The respector of persons in the epistles is about people who come into the Church if I remember right about poor or rich in regards to treating members at a local assembly. Which can not be taken as an absolutism in every category. Especially where God puts otherwise.
Why would God put HONOR Thy Mother and Father in the commandments in scripture. Without a Doubt God is telling Us our immediate family is more important than strangers. That is not to mean not to be fair to others of course but there are priorities in life. Obviously it is to take care and be respectful. If everyone took care of their parents properly most of the problems in even today’s society would not arise with seniors.
To say the least He of all people is more bound to this Commandment than any other person that ever existed on the planet. One for being God who instituted it. Second for being the Sinless Lamb of God who could never sin as such. So how much more so to do it absolutely right better than any man. Especially a King who honors his mother.
I amazed when people just merely mention like it was nothing to be the Blessed Virgin Mary. Did you ever talk to a Mother who lost a son by beating and then death? How about a woman who knew this was going to happen before her own child is born?
Thirty Three Years Before! What a burden to say the least.
The prophecy of Simeon:
"And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that out of many hearts thoughts may be revealed" (Luke II: 34-35).
How great was the shock to Mary's Heart at hearing the sorrowful words, in which holy Simeon told the bitter Passion and death of her sweet Jesus, since in that same moment she realized in her mind all the insults, blows, and torments which the impious men were to offer to the Redeemer of the world.
But a still sharper sword pierced her soul. It was the thought of men's ingratitude to her beloved Son. Now consider that because of other's sins you are unhappily among the ungrateful while this is going on for last three years of your son's life.
How about some on these threads who ridicule and marginalize her like she was a mere waif. A great mere mechanism without emotions or real worth in the cog wheels of life in the most important history reality story that ever existed.
I am amazed when my evangelical brothers and sisters act callous towards our dear lady. Oh she asks Jesus for a miracle at a wedding then is ridiculed by some over the years on these threads. Wow! Like we have the right!
She knows what is before her in her future for what her son the Savior will have to endure for all. What great heart ache her heart ached. Then at a joyous occasion she asks for happiness within a request for wine.
Some of us read like it is only a story. No! It is a true life lived for every main person in the story! We can not just act like it was not much because the so called mention of Mary on the word in the Gospel story is not enough to warrant real importance by some. NO! How much a real heart ached Horror of a life lived reality for this poor woman.
I stand on his honor and his honor is on His Mother and His word. His honor to His mother is more real than any other human honor because it is his words not ours that are more important. He can never falter in his honor.
"Honor your Father and your Mother, that your days may be long in the land which The Lord your God gives you." (Exodus 20:12)
Whether you know it or not you belittle the Lord’s Honor. He believes in the Family function more than any other who ever existed. He invented it that’s why!
Now lets examine The great John The Baptist. First I would like to point out that I could not even touch or do what the baptist did. What John did I am in awe. But when we compare the great Holy acting people of the Gospels it is like comparing great heroes to heroes but some go through even more becoming greater heroes.
Funny thing about God after He declares what You ultimately say about John the baptist. He is showing great fortitude and mercy towards John because before it was said after John doubted who Jesus was in salvation history.
Luke 7:
Jesus and John the Baptist
18 John’s disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19 he sent them to the Lord to ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?’”
21 At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22 So he replied to the messengers, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”
Nowhere do you ever see Mary doubt Jesus at all as Adult Savior.
But John who hears God's voice from the Father.
Matthew 3: The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
John the Baptist hears God the FATHER's Voice and Sees The HOLY SPIRIT as a DOVE. How could he doubt? He saw and heard in the God given Supernatural. Yet He doubts. I hate having to compare.
I do not believe that What Jesus said means more honored than Mary. I believe it was a colloquialism. His main point was about the kingdom of Heaven. A saying showing a point. Just like when the Lord showed about cutting off our hands, eyes and hands if we sinned. It was about how bad sin really is in our lives. It is not an absolute.
By the way I was named after John the Baptist, John The Apostle and my Uncle John. I am in Holy awe of the two famous Johns. One was beheaded. One was put in vat of boiling oil and survived.
Freeper Regards!
Praise Jesus and Hail Mary as The Angel declared!
All Glory to God in The Highest!!
Catholicsm - the cult religion of hate for Jesus while serving satan by using Mary as their prop for him.
"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Matt 7:23
Sorry! I think I just sent to Private message by accident. So Sorry!
Yeah, and he switched from talking to Eve and about her to talking about Mary within a couple of sentences also right? To stretch metaphors so drastically as to try to make Jesus the enmity talked about in that verse is nonsense. Only Catholics in an attempt to instill their Mariology have corrupted that passage to mean something it doesn’t.
Fixed it so that it would align with the rest of your posts.
Oy!! The magisterium is the RESULT of intellectual inbreeding that has become enamored of itself that it thinks that its pronouncements are on par with the inspired, Holy Spirit breathed Word of the Living God.
There's arrogance for you.
-—We may have serious theological differences, but I stand with you against this monstrous evil.-—
TY. We’re all in serious trouble.
So if as the title of this article says, the magisterium makes sense, can what it promulgates be found to be the truth as God's word says?
Can it be shown to make sense?
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2:9-16 9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— 10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
People with glass interpretations (matthew 16:18) shouldn't throw stones ;o)
Aren’t you the clever one!
So you're saying the King James Cultists suddenly all converted to Catholicism?
No. The "Holy Spirit guided me to invest in Pound-Puppy futures" is still safely Protestant.
Splendid question!
The multiplicity of Protestant denominations proves beyond any shadow of doubt an organ like the Magisterium is absolutely required in the same way Trinitarian Theology is required though neither is explicit in the pages of Scripture.
Of course the big sticking point here is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, because Protestants routinely criticize Catholics for extra-biblical pronouncements, but are incapable of, or refuse to, admit their own hermeneutics are largely extra-biblical.
Do you really believe statements that dumb were the intent of your citations from the Corinthian letters?
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