Posted on 01/27/2012 8:11:10 PM PST by Colofornian
After wondering aloud yesterday whether the Romneys converted Mitt's dead father-in-law to Mormonism...Yes. They did.
Edward Davies, Ann Romney's father, was an atheist who was also strongly anti-religion. By the time he died, he was the only member of Ann Romney's immediate family to not convert to Mormonism.
Fourteen months later, in 1993, he was baptized in a special ceremony at a Salt Lake City church. This practice requires a living person who has already been baptized to undergo the immersion in water again on behalf of the dead. No word on who this person might have been in Davies' case.
Information on the ceremony was listed on a genealogical database, and another entry on Ancestry.com detailed a separate sealing ceremony that linked Davies to his wife in death...
Baptism of the dead is encouraged by the Church of Latter-day Saints, as it is seen as essential to salvation. But the LDS Church has been criticized for it often. After coming under fire in 1995, the Church agreed to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims posthumously. It had already added tens of thousands to its baptism registry by that time.
Romney's faith has done little to damage his quest for the presidency so far. But the issue pops up once in a while, most recently after Romney's tax returns showed a $4.1 million donation to the Church. There's also evidence to suggest that anti-Mormon sentiment could have given votes to Newt Gingrich in South Carolina.
When Newsweek asked Romney whether he had performed any proxy baptisms in the past, Romney responded "I have in my life, but I haven't recently."
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
Let me rephrase, as you yourself note. Professional genealogists don’t DEPEND on documentation from the LSD to certify lineage. For instance, last I heard it’s not accepted by groups like the DAR/SAR where a direct line has to be established to a participant in the American Revolution.
You are correct.
The problem is that the Mormons do this without the consent of the relatives involved. They scour their data bases like ancestry.com for names of deceased and mass baptize them. This us 95% of the activity inside a Mormon temple.
The thousands of Holocaust victims the Mormons baptized were obviously done without permission.
This Mormon thing is a killer for a candidate. It is a cult, not a Christian denomination.
Remember where it says “befare false prophets”?
Wow! That’s a relief. I guess they’ll be coming after your ancestors and mine some time soon.
Can’t wait for the media to ask Mitt the inevitable “boxers or briefs?” question.
FWIW The Mormon magic underwear is covered with Masonuc symbols.
All the major genealogy sites and databases are run by the Mormons. It seemed odd to me at Furst, before I knew about this baptizing the dead practice. Now it all makes total sense. They cull the data bases that unknowing people have input their family info on, and voila! Great great grandaddy who died in Poland or India in 1860 was baptized a Mormon.
Very insidious and loathsome practice.
Why is Mitt spreading lies about supporting Israel and Jerusalem as its capital when he and all Mormons believe the new Jerusalem, and the Second Coming will be in Missouri?
They haven’t done it for genealogy, they have done it to promote their pagan, un-Christian cult. Mormons are parasites using other’s family info to desecrate their memory.
Why the Mormons want to expose the scam they have been carrying on by running one if them for POTUS is beyond me.
One good thing that will come out if this is that the bright light of day will be shined on the Mormons exposing them for the cult of charlatans they are.
However, the LDS collection includes many millions of indexed records obtained directly from states, counties, government agencies and church registers. Usually the scanned source document is accessible. These are reliable, and very inconvenient to get from the original issuer otherwise.
The inaccuracies occur when John Doe submits a family tree he created based on the memory of his 90-year old great-aunt.
Are you familiar with Mormon rituals for the dead -- or aren't you?
It's more than mere "prayer"...it's "proxy" activity in which they assign REAL worth to the act itself.
You know Hebrews 9:27 in the Bible says it's appointed for man to die once, and then the judgment. The key point there coupled with John 3:18 (which talks about people who reject Jesus are judged already on that basis) is that the cross then becomes THE key proxy event prior to that judgment...
Hopefully you’re familiar enough with these verses to note that, no, it’s not some Mormon temple administrator in conjunction with family members dead-dunking a teen proxy boy in an act of necro-baptism that somehow “rescues” the still unredeemed spirit – as if Christ’s proxy act on the cross wasn’t enough to cover him on earth in the first place!
How dare you combine to either belittle the cross of Jesus Christ!
And/or a person exercising real trust and faith in what Jesus Christ did on that cross!
What are some of the things "wrong" with baptism of the dead?
(1) As I said, it negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement"
(2) It creates a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"
(3) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone start the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248) [Yeah, all: Think of The Addams family performing ghoulish eternal wedding rituals for the dead]
And, then even more blasphemous is that Mormons deem what fellow Mormons do in these necro-baptisms that they actually label themselves "saviors" -- competitors to Jesus!
Here...I posted this vanity last October which I've also excerpted below -- Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity)
The string of Mormon “prophets” of John Taylor, Woodruff, Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith certainly heavily inculcated the idea that “saviors” of the dead were plural – and they weren’t talking about Jesus Christ as being “THE” Savior of the dead!
And, unlike the Bible, which places a definitive “THE” before Jesus Christ as THE Savior (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14), Mormon “prophets” have long and consistently preached that the Mormon churches produces “saviors” – plural! (Lds often cite Obadiah 21, which the KJV renders as "saviors"; the NIV makes it clear that these "deliverers" are there to govern the mountains of Esau; not become proxy saviors taking Jesus' role as Savior of the World!)
Lds “prophet” John Taylor: " ...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163)
Taylor: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit” (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
Lds “prophet” Wilford Woodruff: “…YOU will be recognized as Saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 189, 2004)
Woodruff: “WE become saviors on Mount Zion as we build temples and receive saving ordinances on behalf of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 187)
Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith: “... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith: “Teach your children and let yourselves be taught the fact that it is necessary for you to become saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Joseph F. Smith, Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 412, 1998)
Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith: “…WE have a certain work to do in order to liberate…they…are unprepared for eternal life: we have to open the door for them, by performing ordinances which they cannot perform for themselves, and which are essential to their release from the ‘prison-house,’…” (Joseph F. Smith, Ibid, p. 410)
The Christian counterclaim is that Jesus Christ has already done that, minus any ritual mumbo-jumbo performed in a man-made temple. Jesus said His personal temple – one that would zero in on death – and the only real temple worth anything regarding salvation – was the temple of His body (John 2:19-21). That body was laid on the cross. He liberated us and opened the door; we are free to walk out of the “prison-house” of our sin nature, bondage to this world, bondage to Satan, bondage to a fear of death, etc!
Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith emphasized that not only do Lds need to perform “every law and every requirement of the (Mormon) gospel” for themselves, but for the dead as well:
“No man can enter into the Kingdom of God but by the door and through the means that Jesus Christ has offered to the children of men. … Not a soul that has ever lived and died from off the face of this earth shall escape a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they receive it and obey it, the ordinances of the gospel will be performed for and in their behalf, by their kindred, or their posterity in some generation of time after them, so that every law and every requirement of the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be carried out, and the promises and requirements fulfilled for the salvation of the living and also for the salvation of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 307, 1998; original source “Latter-day Saints Follow Teachings of the Savior,” Scrap Book of Mormon Literature, 2 vols. 2:561-562).
In other words, Jesus’ proxy blood didn’t fulfill the “requirements” and debt-payments and falling short of fulfilling the law. Mormon proxy sweat labor has to fulfill that. And for how many of the dead of history?
“The work of saving the dead has practically been reserved for the dispensation of the fullness of times, when the Lord shall restore all things. It is, therefore, the duty of the Latter-day Saints to see that it is accomplished. WE cannot do it all at once, but will have the 1,000 years of the millennium to do it in. In that time the work must be done in behalf of the dead of the previous 6,000 years, for all who need it.” (Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:166)
If you somehow think that Mormons like Romney become "co-saviors" -- co-redemptors -- by their ritualistic temple shenanigans, you're off your rocker!
Got who knows???
Is it wrong for me to pray that God tells someone ELSE to give him the TRUTH; instead of ME?
James 2:16
If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
Elsie 1:1
If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; Enjoy eternity," but does nothing about his SPIRITUAL needs, what good is it?
Open the Gates of Heaven, Saint Smith...
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Temple Recommend Questions
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church? 5 Do you live the law of chastity? 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church? 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen? 10 Are you a full-tithe payer? 11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom? 12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? 13 If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple? 14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been? 15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances? |
There is another MORMON thread here that has a link to a MITT video on YT where he exPLAINS all this...
Offering the deceased the opportunity for eternal life by baptising them after they are dead - why on earth would they need the permission of the relatives? It is a religious gesture from their faith to God to accept those that never had the opportunity, desire at the time, or ability to come to God under what Mormons believe necessary. Is it any worse than someone privately praying for the soul of a deceased atheist, or making an offering to God to accept him/her even though they were an atheist? I can guarantee you this happens millions of times a year in thousands of churches that are NOT Mormon.
Most of the cases where incorrect information has been entered for my ancestors come for from none LDS.
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